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Smart meters, less smart companies

trog said:
"you should have demanded proof that the meter needed changing." The meters have dates on them which the supplier also has so they know when the meter has reached its replacement date. I was told I needed smart meters due to expiry date and asked for details, the electric was out of date but the gas had a year to go so I only let then change 1 and have not had any further pressure to change the gas.
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What can I tell you? I heard they don't have evidence and are blowing hot air because they get penalised for not installing enough smart meters.

I've ignored Octopus's appointment emails with no come-back so far. If I've not acknowledged their appointment and somebody still turns up, that's their problem.

prpr said:
Are you able to expand on that at all?
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I know that's not addressed to me, and obviously I don't have any experience, but there are plenty of stories on the likes of Rip-Off Britain of smart meters leading to ludicrous bills. There was even one where a church or chapel which just runs some bar heaters for its few parishioners once a month and has the main circuit breaker off the rest of the time, service charge greater than usage, suddenly jumping up enormously with no explanation and the supplier maintaining that the meter is working correctly.

Nonetheless I can accept that such instances are an extreme minority and probably also happened pre-smart with less fanfare. What really bothers me is the embedded non-replaceable battery. WTF can't they just scavenge power?
 
@BH " I heard they don't have evidence and are blowing hot air because they get penalised for not installing enough smart meters."

I also heard they get fined if they do not meet their quota but they without doubt had the meter dates. When I questioned the need to replace the meters they gave me the dates which I then looked and confirmed for myself also they must have got them from some shared data base as (EDF) they had never even sent a meter reader to my house and never have in the 3 1/4 years I have now been with them. EON used to threaten me with fines if I did not let them read my meters at least once a year claiming it was a safety check though they did nothing apart from take the numbers and even Green Energy sent one a couple of times a year.
 
I've not noticed any kind of visit for years, certainly not since I went over to Octopus when they took over from Bulb, and probably not while I was with Bulb... but my electric meter is externally accessible, while my gas meter is not.

But a "BBE" date on a meter is not evidence of it being out of calibration, only that it is out of certification.
 
Black Hole said:
I've not noticed any kind of visit for years, certainly not since I went over to Octopus when they took over from Bulb, and probably not while I was with Bulb... but my electric meter is externally accessible, while my gas meter is not.

But a "BBE" date on a meter is not evidence of it being out of calibration, only that it is out of certification.
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But is "out of certification." all they need to force you to have a new meter?
 
prpr said:
Are you able to expand on that at all?
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Although half-hourly usage information was being uploaded (via a third-party, I can't remember the name - but it is how these things work) to BG the meter readings required for the bill wasn't being recorded. (I didn't understand that either). I had to manually read the meters. Crawling about on the floor in a cupboard is not my idea of fun! After a couple of grumbles and a complaint that is now resolved. I also found some confusion with the time. The meters and the display show the current time (whether BST or GMT) but the uploaded data is always GMT. When BG offer Peak Save they specify a time period. My calculations and theirs differ, strangely enough by an hour when we were on BST. I complained and got an unsatisfactory answer and £10 "good will". The saved amounts are small. Although I'm signed up to the savings it will only amount to a couple of quid a quarter. I'm not going to change my usage times to fit in with piddling savings.
 
Black Hole said:
Nonetheless I can accept that such instances are an extreme minority and probably also happened pre-smart with less fanfare. What really bothers me is the embedded non-replaceable battery. WTF can't they just scavenge power?
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As I understand it, only the gas meter has a battery and communicates periodical readings (about 1/2 hourly?) to the electriity meter. Hence the load is vryr light., The electricity meter then does the heavy lifting of both sets of data to the management system. It would be rather difficult to scavenge power from the gas meter!
 
Black Hole said:
If I've not acknowledged their appointment and somebody still turns up, that's their problem.
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30+ years ago, in my rented flat, they kept sending me appointments to change the meter, none of which was convenient as I was always at work. One day the bell rang just as I was about to go out to work, and it was the meter changer. I told him it wasn't convenient, but he said it would only take 10 minutes and if I refused again they would be seeking statutory powers to break in and forcibly fit it, as they were legally obliged to change the meter due to it being out of certification.
I gave in at that point, not fancying the consequences/hassle of it all. It took him about 15 minutes as I recall, and I was only a little bit late in.
there are plenty of stories on the likes of Rip-Off Britain of smart meters leading to ludicrous bills.
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Indeed, but how much of is just journalese? Short of it mis-reporting the readings, it's difficult to miscalculate things if you're on a fixed tariff (not one of those 30 min. variable ones they're pushing), and presumably you can take your own periodic readings, in the same way as a conventional meter, to compare with theirs.
Black Hole said:
I've not noticed any kind of visit for years... but my electric meter is externally accessible, while my gas meter is not.
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My spreadsheet says May 2016 since an M reading. I've just checked my bills for the last 2 years and nothing but Customer readings, and my meters are both externally accessible.
On the other property in question, which I don't even own (yet), they are both in the garage. I dimly remember someone coming, possibly in the period since Covid, and having to open up for readings to be taken.

If I go for "smart", I can do my own calculations to model a what-if on agile, even though it's currently on fixed. If I don't, then I don't get any data unless I put in my own clamp monitoring, but that's much easier than it used to be, now I'm more au-fait with Shelly/Home Assistant/Node-RED stuff.
I'll probably see how the mood takes me on Friday.
 
prpr said:
30+ years ago, in my rented flat, they kept sending me appointments to change the meter, none of which was convenient as I was always at work. One day the bell rang just as I was about to go out to work, and it was the meter changer. I told him it wasn't convenient, but he said it would only take 10 minutes and if I refused again they would be seeking statutory powers to break in and forcibly fit it, as they were legally obliged to change the meter due to it being out of certification.
I gave in at that point, not fancying the consequences/hassle of it all. It took him about 15 minutes as I recall, and I was only a little bit late in.

Indeed, but how much of is just journalese? Short of it mis-reporting the readings, it's difficult to miscalculate things if you're on a fixed tariff (not one of those 30 min. variable ones they're pushing), and presumably you can take your own periodic readings, in the same way as a conventional meter, to compare with theirs.

My spreadsheet says May 2016 since an M reading. I've just checked my bills for the last 2 years and nothing but Customer readings, and my meters are both externally accessible.
On the other property in question, which I don't even own (yet), they are both in the garage. I dimly remember someone coming, possibly in the period since Covid, and having to open up for readings to be taken.

If I go for "smart", I can do my own calculations to model a what-if on agile, even though it's currently on fixed. If I don't, then I don't get any data unless I put in my own clamp monitoring, but that's much easier than it used to be, now I'm more au-fait with Shelly/Home Assistant/Node-RED stuff.
I'll probably see how the mood takes me on Friday.
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I get an email every month asking for a reading or they will estimate my bill which can be a pain in the ass but i have only failed to provide once and they then overestimated by about 20%. By the fitter making my meter fully dumb and not just dumb they cannot remotely cut off my power and to me that is more important than saving a few pence on varied usage time tariffs.
 
prpr said:
I've had one of the dreaded "your meter is nearly out of certification and it needs to be changed" type emails from $energy company.
They say no traditional meters are being manufactured or refurbished, so I've been compelled to book an appointment to have "Smart" ones fitted on Fri. afternoon.
Anyone got any tips/gotchas to beware of?
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When my gas meter was last replaced I failed to ask if they could guarantee that the empty spaces surrounding the old gas meter would not be compromised, or ask for details of where the gas meter would be.
They installed the replacement meter but not in exactly the same logical location and had to used longer pipes to reach.
The storage units I had no longer fitted into the available space and the available wall space was reduced. I no longer use British Gas for my registered supplier.
 
trog said:
I get an email every month asking for a reading or they will estimate my bill which can be a pain in the ass but i have only failed to provide once and they then overestimated by about 20%. By the fitter making my meter fully dumb and not just dumb they cannot remotely cut off my power and to me that is more important than saving a few pence on varied usage time tariffs.
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I get emails every month from OVO asking for my readings, and periodically, a letter saying they want to change my meter as it is "out of calibration". I just ignore the letters as I don't want a meter for the reason you give. So far haven't had any threatening letters about forcing entry to change it.
 
BMAX said:
As I understand it, only the gas meter has a battery and communicates periodical readings (about 1/2 hourly?) to the electriity meter. Hence the load is vryr light.,
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True. But if you need to read the meter manually you press a button which illuminates the display. Obviously this will shorten the battery life. There is a battery compartment and it looks as though just the battery could be replaced. My understanding is that the whole meter would be replaced.

As for the time taken to fit smart meters - I was given a woolly appointment somewhere between 8-12 and an estimated time of 2 hours to fit the meters.
 
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