Sound is too dynamic?

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
If LPs sound inferior to CDs then are you saying that compression makes the sound superior?
I think he is saying that LP sound is compressed and that CD sound is a lot less compressed and is better because of it
BTW
I have just realised that my 4/5 year old Samsung TV has an audio compression option, they call it 'Auto Volume'
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
The way it reads, the inference is that he is saying CDs are compressed. I don't know enough to comment, but I think the dynamic range on an LP has to be controlled.

Auto volume - yep, that's the one.
 

Border

Member
On the Panasonic TVs' sound menu there is an option SPDIF Selection. [SPDIF - a standard audio file transfer format... Selects the initial setting for digital audio output signal from DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT terminal] Is that the same as audio compression ? Amped may have this option on his television. I set this option to 'Auto' on my Panasonic and also upgraded its firmware and I have since noticed no problems with volume changes during the commercial breaks (again not exactly what the original post was about).

If the 'SPDIF Selection' has nothing to do with audio compression on the TV then perhaps the compression has been improved in the new firmware for the TV.
 

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
The way it reads, the inference is that he is saying CDs are compressed.

Mike0001 is saying compression = inferior sound, so surly in #54 where he says ' compression is one reason why LPs sound inferior to CDs IMHO.' he is saying that compression is making LPs sound inferior isn't he? The dynamic range of a LP pick-up MUST be less than 16Bit @ 44.1K samples /second. If compression is bad, then LPs are bad and CDs are good
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Mike0001 did not make it clear which he was referring to. Luke chose to interpret it the other way around, presumably from the standpoint that "analogue is better than digital".
 

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
Mike0001 did not make it clear which he was referring to. Luke chose to interpret it the other way around, presumably from the standpoint that "analogue is better than digital".
In #61 I was saying that Luke had misinterpreted what Mike0001 has said. Live Analogue sound may have the best dynamic range of all, but after it has been captured on Analogue LP it isn't
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
In fact, compression is one reason why LPs sound inferior to CDs IMHO.
This statement, taken out of context, can be interpreted two ways. Luke quoted and responded to it in isolation, deliberately or not.

Let's not get into an argument about it, we both (think we) know which way the original post was intended, and it's why I adopt a verbose style in my writing.
 

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
Hey, I think this may be a first, I agree with what you are saying ! !. Quite often someone on this forum will make a statement as part of a post that is written in a way that can be interpreted two (or more) ways and then disappears from the forum for a while. Nothing wrong with that people do have other things in their life to be getting on with, however in the mean time the regulars interpret or mis-interpret what the OP has said and carry the discussion, sometimes for dozens of posts before the OP returns to say well actually you've all interpreted it incorrectly. What I am saying is maybe it's best to wait for the OP to clarify.
 
OP
Amped

Amped

New Member
Hi all!

Big thank yous all round for your input into my problem.

I still haven't had chance to play around with my set up as of yet, busy weekend and a busy work load etc.

I'm still of the opinion that this is partially if not fully the fault of the Hummy. TV tuner and my old Panasonic box give me a level sound... use the Hummy, and the sound becomes more dynamic: quieter quite bits and louder loud bits as it where. The fact that Hummax have had other sound problems and had to fix them gives me little confidence either. I will endeavor to have a fiddle about at some point shortly and see what I can't do.

Interesting comments on compression regards cds and vinyl etc. This might make interesting reading for some of you: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)

Again, big thank you everyone!
 

RobH1

Well-Known Member
Not tried Night Mode on the amp yet, waiting for a suitable programme and after reading the manual this function can only be accessed in the menu when variations of Dolby are broadcast, so appears to be limited to HiDef progs on TV.
Switching between the same radio broadcast on the Onkyo tuner and the Humax, there is a definite increase in volume and dynamism. The tuner has it's own dedicated aerial. TV aerial is communal (9 units) with an amplifier which may account for this.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
What are you comparing it with - FM, DAB? Freeview radio is better than both (depending on allocated bit rate of course), so it's not a fair test (if you are looking for artificially magnified dynamic range).
 

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
Not tried Night Mode on the amp yet, waiting for a suitable programme and after reading the manual this function can only be accessed in the menu when variations of Dolby are broadcast, so appears to be limited to HiDef progs on TV.

That sounds like your Amp. will only apply compression when instructed to by a parameter carried in the Dolby Digital Stream, here is an extract from my Sony STR-DB840 user manual :-
sony-compression.jpg
EDIT
It looks like as far as content recorded by the Humax, anything transmitted on a High-def. channel e.g. DD2.0 DD5.1 etc. will has the compression flag and stuff transmitted on Standard Def. channels, (PCM 48kHz) won't
 

RobH1

Well-Known Member
What are you comparing it with - FM, DAB? Freeview radio is better than both (depending on allocated bit rate of course), so it's not a fair test (if you are looking for artificially magnified dynamic range).

FM, I use this for convenience, but for specific listening I use the Humax which I agree is superior.

@Ezra, thanks, it seems to be the same as the Onkyo and I will check out a suitable programme to see if the dialogue is easier to decipher.
 

lstar337

Member
That sounds like your Amp. will only apply compression when instructed to by a parameter carried in the Dolby Digital Stream, here is an extract from my Sony STR-DB840 user manual :-
View attachment 483
EDIT
It looks like as far as content recorded by the Humax, anything transmitted on a High-def. channel e.g. DD2.0 DD5.1 etc. will has the compression flag and stuff transmitted on Standard Def. channels, (PCM 48kHz) won't
Not seen that before. On my amp the compression can be added to any signal on any input.
 
D

Deleted member 473

I think he is saying that LP sound is compressed and that CD sound is a lot less compressed and is better because of it
BTW
I have just realised that my 4/5 year old Samsung TV has an audio compression option, they call it 'Auto Volume'


Quite correct on the first point. LPs are heavily volume compressed, they have to be because of the limitations of the medium, otherwise the wiggles would break out of the grooves.

"In fact, compression is one reason why LPs sound inferior to CDs IMHO."

That seems unambiguous to me. Where does that say that CDs are more compressed than LPs?

My 1 year old TV probably has an auto volume setting, but not via TOSLINK.

Anyway, watched Masterchef last night and the sound was impeccable. So, it is possible to get the balance correct without compressing the volume.

But, if you want to play with settings, my Amp has Audissey equalization, three levels of auto volume, and many levels of LFE mix to play with. :cool:

(Not that I find any of those useful!)
 
D

Deleted member 473

Could I clarify one thing? I am not saying that some setting that just increases the volume or decreases it introduces distortion. It is anything that constantly adjusts the volume that introduces it. Also, anything that increases the minimum volume and decreases the maximum volume distorts the sound. That is exactly what auto volume does.

Also, returning to the OP, could it be about changes of dialogue volume from one scene to another? I agree that that is a problem. Also, outdoors scenes often have noise filtering to remove background traffic noise, etc. That makes dialogue hard to hear, for me at least.
 

RobH1

Well-Known Member
Not finding a suitable programme to evaluate 'Night Mode' on my amp, I thought I would repeat watch 'Shetland' on iplayer in HiDef. I checked the amp display and was surprised to see the input as two channel PCM, no Dolby, which meant no Night Mode.
Does this mean that Dolby cannot be sent from iplayer?
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
It's up to the BBC what they send in the MP4 stream. If you are using HDR-FOX and CF, you can save off the last played stream and then examine the .mp4 file. With HD-FOX you have to play the stream in HDR Mode to be able to save it.
 
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