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Subtitles out of sync

#1
I have the following problem with subtitles going out of sync on some programs;
If I play back a recorded program from the humax, every few minutes the subtitles will stream onto the screen and run ahead of the dialog. The dialog will sometimes catch up if left alone long enough.
Here is the important bit: if I watch the program live from the humax the subtitles are perfectly OK and if I copy a recorded program which has the problem from the humax and watch it on a PC it is perfect.
I have had a long email dialog with humax support and have done a master reset and re-formatted the HDD as directed, all to no avail.
The odd thing is that I have two ITV programs: Lewis that un-syncs its subtitles and Vera that does not. I also have a BBC4 program that is also OK. I kept these programs and ran them through mediainfo.
I am not savvy as to the technical data of mpeg video files but comparing the output of the three files, it is noticeable that the parameter in the 'TEXT' section 'Delay relative to video' is 23s 340ms in the Lewis video whereas its 4s 404ms in the BBC4 video and 804ms in Vera (the ITV program that is OK)
I don't understand the large figure for the Lewis video? seems weird to me. could this be a mediainfo error?
If this parameter has any bearing on the problem then is this a broadcast problem or is this a humax problem in that the code cannot cope with such large delays (but only on playback)?
So I guess my questions are;
Am I wasting my time with Humax given that this is a South Korean company so the possibility of UK tech people accessing any code here is propably very slim.
Is there a humax box that works, or other manufacturers for that matter.
I see that this problem is not unknown but no resolution has been offered.

I could of course be wildly off course here, I only know that as my deafness increases, this is becoming a bigger problem.

Here are the system details:
HDR-FOX T2
Software FHTCP 1.03.12
Loader a7.30
System ID 80BC.7E00
Update date 07 FEB 2014
MICOM Version 9.3

TV Transmitter: Oxford
Relevant Channel data: C60- PSB2 ITV (other channels have the problem)
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#2
I have had a long email dialog with humax support and have done a master reset and re-formatted the HDD as directed, all to no avail.
That's the only thing they ever suggest, and (to be fair) the only intervention available.

Am I wasting my time with Humax given that this is a South Korean company so the possibility of UK tech people accessing any code here is propably very slim.
Support for the HDR-FOX is long since dead. Humax have their new models to fry, not expend effort on products which no longer create any sales revenue.

I see that this problem is not unknown but no resolution has been offered.
In specific instances, you could try re-syncing the data using a suitable editor - if the material is worth the bother. Otherwise: put up with it, or scan the forums for opinions on other PVRs. I have no idea whether the more recent Humax offerings (eg FVP-4000T) will perform any better for you.
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
#3
I often get subtitles running ahead, though it is generally on the 'lesser' channel recordings (we almost never watch live), noticeably 5USA and Drama which we have regular recordings off.
It usually occurs either where there has been a pause in speech for a while, and the subtitles seem to restart way too soon, or after skipping adverts which often decouples them.
If left they sometimes resync after a few minutes but I generally try to regain them myself. Stopping and Resuming usually works but is a bit dramatic. Pausing/playing, skipping back (15 secs) or turning the s/t off and then back on each work sometimes, so I usually try one or more of those before doing stop/start.

As this rarely seems to be a problem on the major channels (which we usually record in HD and may use a different system) I assume it is just another broadcaster/Humax glitch. I've never bothered asking for support - I'm just grateful most of the programmes have s/t at all as some series I've watched don't and it's a real pain.
 
OP
OP
A

apple

New Member
#4
Thanks for your replies. I half guessed that I am stuck with it. It's obviously not just me as MikeSh has the same problem.
It is a curious one though.
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
#5
I have a feeling we had the same problem, occasionally, on our 9200 some years back, so it may not even be a 'FOX' specific thing. I'm now trying hard to recall if it ever happens on our Freesat box - have to report back when I've watched a few more things on it.

Also, as one can recover the sync and rewind/skip back and watch the previously unsynced part in sync, the problem clearly isn't programmed into the recording. It must be some interaction between the box and data that kicks it out.
 
OP
OP
A

apple

New Member
#6
That would make sense to me, in that if this is a humax bug, then it's possible that it lies in some core code that is just ported from product to product.
So upgrading would not fix the problem and it's an expensive way to find out. Besides, I like (apart from this problem) the fox and it's universal remote. It does what I want.
 
#7
Just focused on this topic as irritation with the subtitle sync problem has finally translated into 'action'! Very helpful to see the previous comments and I will be trying the suggested remedies. We have a Topfield 5800 as well as the Fox T2; have not observed the problem with the former. I'm told that subtitles do not survive transition to DVD or to PC which is another annoyance. Clearly the technology has some way to go before those of us who sometimes need a bit of help interpreting dialogue are properly served.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
#8
We have a Topfield 5800 as well as the Fox T2; have not observed the problem with the former. I'm told that subtitles do not survive transition to DVD or to PC which is another annoyance. Clearly the technology has some way to go before those of us who sometimes need a bit of help interpreting dialogue are properly served.
When I export my sub-titled recordings to a PC via a USB drive I can play back the recordings with sub-titles. MPC-HC has been supporting the sub-titles within the .ts file for a few years. I suspect that recent version of VLC would also support .ts sub-titles. Some of the old SD recorders do strip the sub-titles out on export, but not the HDR-FOX T2.

With the HDR-FOX T2 you can easily demonstrate to yourself that exported recordings do retain the subtitles. To do this copy a recording to an HDR-FOX T2 attached USB drive and then use the HDR-FOX T2 to play back the recording from the USB drive. Sub-titles will still be there. If your PC media player cannot play the embedded sub-tiles then then use a different player which can e.g. MPC-HC.
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
#10
Further to my post #5 I have now seen this behaviour once or twice on the Freesat box as well. The latest was on BBC1 HD.
It wasn't as far out of sync as it has been on the FOX, but enough to make me pause, skip back, etc to get it back in sync. So I guess it's either a Humax thing or something about the inherent structure of the subtitle system that 'breaks' occasionally.
 
#11
With a program recorded from Channel 4, having the too-soon subtitle problem, I decrypted on the Humax and copied the file to PC. Playing with VLC fixed the problem. (As others have reported also.)

This suggests it is the media player on the Humax that is the problem. Would it be possible to have a the custom firmware put a better media player on the Humax?
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#12
No. As others (including myself) have reported also, we have no access to the video/audio outputs therefore cannot implement any kind of media player, photo viewer, or whatever, that outputs to the TV by HDMI or analogue.
 
#13
I missed the start of this conversation as I was out of the country.
I have reported this problem in the past but there does not seem to be a solution. It mostly occurs on C4, sometimes on STV but rarely if ever on BBC.
My wife is hard of hearing and is on the point of giving up on the HDR-Fox-2. Before investing on an alternative I would need to be sure that the fault was not present.
Is there any way of post processing the file on the HDR as playing the program on a PC is not really a solution?
Ironically we are now spending more time watching foreign language dramas as the subtitles are embedded in the video!
 
#14
I have come across this forum late in the day.

I have had this very same problem since the day I bought my HDR Fox-T2 PVR in March 2013. I wish now I had sent it back for a refund.

My early appearing subtitles is only on most of the minor Freeview channels when the watching a recording. The five main channels, BBC 1 & 2, ITV, Ch4 & Ch5 play back the subtitles perfectly.

I have exchanged numerous emails with the Humax "Lack of - help desk" to no avail. I have contacted the TV companies, the people who provide the subtitles and my local transmitter station. None of them can explain to me what causes the problem. As I see it if the subtitles are perfect when watching any channel live the problem on playback must be down the Humax PVR. Obviously Humax won't admit to this.

I discovered that pressing the "Instant Replay" button, set to the minimum time of 7 seconds, puts the subtitles back in sync for a while. It's annoying to have to do this but it helps.

If anyone can suggest a HD PVR that doesn't have this problem I would happily buy one.
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
#17
I was intending to watch the latest series of Agents of SHIELD (E4) but this problem was so bad I gave up after about 20 minutes. I was having to 'reset' it every minute or less.

The TV is showing signs of age now, so may need replacing soon - I think 'my' T2 may get replaced at the same time as I really can't watch certain programmes without subtitles on. SWMBO's isn't a problem as she rarely uses subtitles.
 
#18
I use subtitles on films a lot, especially since I struggle to understand most USA actors, but after buying an 1100S the out-of-sync problem seems to be there on most films. Sadly there isn't much choice with Freesat or I wouldn't have bought a Humax machine.
 

GTG

New Member
#19
Out of sync subtitle bug me too - however for me the sync issue is on playback.

The same .TS file played using VLC or Kodi has perfect timing.
 
#20
The sync problem is on playback on my 1100s, too, but you can’t copy recordings to a PC and then play them via a media player, which would be useful. The 1100s was not my wisest choice, nor was staying with Freesat.