The end of Freeview?

[Mick Allen]

Just noticed that it is proposed to end free-to-view over aerial by 2034?

I'm assuming that will be the end of all types of STB's and DVB-USB sticks?

 

[Black Hole]

Just noticed that it is proposed to end free-to-view over aerial by 2034?

That's been on the table for a while, but then so has the demise of analogue radio. We've discussed it before. The drivers from the Powers-That-Be are the long-term maintenance of the transmitters (which, in the case of analogue radio, are at or near end-of-life), and freeing up wireless bandwidth for more profitable purposes. However, there are usually clauses in these things which throw out a lifeline that a good percentage of users have migrated to other means before the service is allowed to be withdrawn.

Personally, I don't understand where sufficient digital bandwidth will come from if suddenly everyone has to rely on individual point-to-point IP delivery – it's not like cable TV, where you're getting effectively a broadcast service delivered over a common wire.

I'm assuming that will be the end of all types of STB's and DVB-USB sticks?

Yep.

 

[EEPhil]

Personally, I don't understand where sufficient digital bandwidth will come from is suddenly everyone has to rely on individual point-to-point IP delivery – it's not like cable TV, where you're getting effectively a broadcast service delivered over a common wire.

It isn't just your personal view. I have my doubts about this. Then there is the additional monetary expense for many who just want to watch TV as they do now.
Of course, this could all go pear shaped depending on who wins the next General Election - with some wanting to defund the BBC and other institutions. So...

However, there are usually clauses in these things which throw out a lifeline that a good percentage of users have migrated to other means before the service is allowed to be withdrawn.

...might be ignored in favour of dogma.

 

[Owen Smith]

That's been on the table for a while, but then so has the demise of analogue radio.

Myself and my parents still listen to FM radio. For the stations we listen to, the sound quality is better than their DAB or streaming offerings.

 

[trog]

Myself and my parents still listen to FM radio. For the stations we listen to, the sound quality is better than their DAB or streaming offerings.

Not to mention they are cheaper to listen to. I have a small DAB radio in my bathroom that takes 4 rechargeable AA batteries and gets used when I have a bath. If I leave it on FM it lasts weeks but only days if I leave it on a DAB station.

 

[EEPhil]

The radio equivalent would be if analogue had already ceased and DAB was to close - leaving internet only.
Have to say if want to listen to the radio I either use Freeview or internet via my phone. Very occasionally DAB. The FM signal here is and absolutely useless if on the move. The DAB signal is also a bit flakey.

 

[Black Hole]

TBH I've pretty much gone over to DAB (and DVB delivery of audio-only) full time. I think the only times I regularly use FM (for ClassicFM – ironic) is when I'm washing up and the set in earshot is a Phillips combined CD & radio (analogue only). Rarely do I have to switch my car audio to analogue now, and when I do (because of a drop-out) the FM is usually dropping out too.

This is a major shift from a few years ago, and partly due to having discovered (and eliminated) an RF-noisy power adapter – but I think coverage has improved too.

My use-case has also changed. A decade ago I would have been getting on with DIY and gardening with earphones plugged into my phone's FM receiver function. I'm no longer doing that.

 

[Black Hole]

Not mentioned in this thread yet is the potential for loss of democratisation, which I suspect is another driver for killing off broadcasting. When everyone has to receive their entertainment/news/whatever by point-to-point communication, what they have access to can be controlled individually. Big Brother.

 

[EEPhil]

what they have access to can be controlled individually. Big Brother.

I might have suggested VPN or TOR browsers etc Some broadcasters are recognising these and blocking them. Furthermore, aren't the government trying to ban VPNs, at least for certain age groups? Or was that just a bad dream?

 

[Black Hole]

I don't see how VPN / TOR can bypass access restrictions when the user has to be paid up and logged in to access anything at all! Yes, they bypass geographic access restrictions for public content, but I was talking about when everything becomes subscription based (which it will).

Be very careful with VPNs, especially free ones (but not excluding paid-for). They are a man-in-the-middle, about as trustworthy as a public WiFi hot-spot – 'nuf said.

 

[EEPhil]

Never used VPN.
It wasn't immediately obvious (to me) that you were talking about subscription.

 

[Owen Smith]

I'm still exclusively an FM listener for radio. I have a 5 element aerial in the loft and get a signal that is good enough for clear stereo. The two stations I listen to most (Classic FM and Greatest Hits Radio) sound better on FM than either their DAB or streaming options. If I were listening to the BBC I would use streaming as their UK streams sound superb, considerably better than FM.

In my car, which I bought new and is now 24 years old, I only have FM. It's still the original CD/radio and has a special interface to the factory fitted satnav so changing the radio could be problematic.

 

[RobH1]

Currently in Portugal and I use Express VPN on an Amazon fire stick to access iPlayer.
Strangely Prime Video won't work with the VPN connected, but works without.
Listen to music with mobile connected to property's Sony CD combi.
5g virtually everywhere here, even out in the sticks yet at home in Cumbria 5g is hit and miss.
DAB similar but FM not so good as our house is in a hollow and we have no line of sight from the aerial to a mast.

 

[Black Hole]

I'm still exclusively an FM listener for radio. I have a 5 element aerial in the loft and get a signal that is good enough for clear stereo. The two stations I listen to most (Classic FM and Greatest Hits Radio) sound better on FM than either their DAB or streaming options. If I were listening to the BBC I would use streaming as their UK streams sound superb, considerably better than FM.

In my car, which I bought new and is now 24 years old, I only have FM. It's still the original CD/radio and has a special interface to the factory fitted satnav so changing the radio could be problematic.

I'm using DAB in the car partially for convenience – 4 Extra isn't on FM, so that would mean more button presses if I wasn't already on DAB.

As to the quality, it seems plenty good enough for my needs.

 

[Owen Smith]

I'm using DAB in the car partially for convenience – 4 Extra isn't on FM, so that would mean more button presses if I wasn't already on DAB.

As to the quality, it seems plenty good enough for my needs.

In the car with all the road and engine noise yes I'd agree. Also 4 Extra is mainly a spoken voice station anyway.

 

[Black Hole]

But the quality is supposed to be even worse on DVB, isn't it? That's OK for what I want too.

 

[Owen Smith]

But the quality is supposed to be even worse on DVB, isn't it? That's OK for what I want too.

It varies widely depending on the station. The BBC radio stations on DVB are quite good, but not as good as their internet streams. Some other channels are dreadful.

 

[EEPhil]

Radio 4 Extra is 160 kb/s joint stereo on DVB. It's 64 kb/s mono on DAB. (I'm sure it used to be 80 on DAB)
R2 192 DVB 112 DAB. (Used to be 128 on DAB)
Only R3 has a decent bitrate on DAB.

 

[Owen Smith]

Radio 4 Extra is 160 kb/s joint stereo on DVB. It's 64 kb/s mono on DAB. (I'm sure it used to be 80 on DAB)

Exactly, bit rates on DVB are substantially better for the BBC radio stations. Not true for many of the others.

R2 192 DVB 112 DAB. (Used to be 128 on DAB)

That's new, last time I checked Radio 2 was 128 on DAB. Checking now Radio 1 and Radio 4 are also 112kbps on DAB. Terrible. This is why I listen on FM.

Only R3 has a decent bitrate on DAB.

And even Radio 3 is only 160kbps during the day. It usually changes to 192kbps in the evening.

 

[EEPhil]

Checking now Radio 1 and Radio 4 are also 112kbps on DAB

I guess that the addition of R3Unwind and the two R1 channels on DAB+ (but same multiplex) is the reason for cutting the bitrates for the rest of the output.As with TV we are trying to cram too much into the multiplexes using legacy encoding methods.