Time limit on editing PM's

raydon

Well-Known Member
There is no time limit set on editing any of your own posts in the forum, yet there is a '5 minutes after posting' limit imposed on editing PM's. Seems a bit pointless to me, can this be removed ?
 
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raydon

Well-Known Member
I thought that a PM thread was similar to a forum thread, just that it's only accessible to the sender and recipients. Unlike the email that actually goes somewhere else which cannot be edited.
Regular thread subscribers similarly get an email, but that, as you are well aware, does not stop you editing the original post.
 

Brian

Administrator
Staff member
I have just had a look, but can't find an option to alter the time limit for editing Conversations, perhaps Michael may be able to do this.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I thought that a PM thread was similar to a forum thread, just that it's only accessible to the sender and recipients. Unlike the email that actually goes somewhere else which cannot be edited.
Regular thread subscribers similarly get an email, but that, as you are well aware, does not stop you editing the original post.
I know they do - but email notification of a PM post is the default, whereas forum posts have to be specifically subscribed to. I look at PMs being the forum equivalent of email, but without having to disclose email addresses.
 
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raydon

Well-Known Member
I look at PMs being the forum equivalent of email, but without having to disclose email addresses.
Well you're entitled to your opinion. However, when I go back to a PM thread to view it, or respond, I don't refer back to an email, I read what's there.

Thanks for looking for the option Brian, maybe Mike knows how to do it.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I'm sorry to disappoint you but it is a bit more than an opinion. I run another forum based in the same software and I can find no means to control this aspect. Yes, a private conversation permits a permanent record of the discussion, but so does email (particularly with the more recent clients that display a succession of emails in a conversation).

I don't have an inside track on the Xenforo design, but it seems clear that editing is time limited in PMs to prevent the record being falsified.
 
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raydon

Well-Known Member
I beg to differ.
I look at PMs being the forum equivalent of email, but without having to disclose email addresses.
is definitely an opinion. Whereas:
I run another forum based in the same software and I can find no means to control this aspect.
is a statement of fact.

I don't have an inside track on the Xenforo design, but it seems clear that editing is time limited in PMs to prevent the record being falsified.
It's not clear at all to me. C'mon, get real, you make it sound like a legal document ! Why would anyone want to falsify a PM ? Is this something on which you may later rely on in court ? I really don't think so.
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
It's probably to avoid confusion. Many people will set the system to e-mail them when a new PM arrives and in many cases (I don't know about this forum) the e-mail contains the text of the PM. So if you change the PM after the e-mail has gone the recipient may never see the change as once he's read the e-mail he'll probably not read the actual PM.
 
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raydon

Well-Known Member
So if you change the PM after the e-mail has gone the recipient may never see the change as once he's read the e-mail he'll probably not read the actual PM.
Are you suggesting that the recipient will not access a PM simply because he/she has received an email of the contents ? Do you ignore a thread because you had an email containing the last post ? I think not on both counts.
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that the recipient will not access a PM simply because he/she has received an email of the contents ?
Yes.
If I've already read the message then if no reply is needed I will at some point probably go in and delete the original PM, but maybe not for some time.
If a reply is needed then I will go to the PM to reply, but probably not reread the whole thing. So I'd miss any subtle changes, though a seriously enlarged or reduced message might trigger further investigation. I'd certainly be quite shocked to find the PM was changed from the e-mail.

Do you ignore a thread because you had an email containing the last post ?

No.
That's a different situation - it's a notification, not an e-mail copy of a PM. I know threads are dynamic and being given some information about the state of it at a point in time isn't neccessarily the end of it.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
It's not clear at all to me. C'mon, get real, you make it sound like a legal document ! Why would anyone want to falsify a PM ? Is this something on which you may later rely on in court ? I really don't think so.
Ask yourself why you want to use the private conversation system in this way.

A private conversation is not moderated unless somebody clicks the report button, but if they do the arbitrators will need an accurate record of events. If the posts were editable after the event, I could send you a PM calling you every name under the sun and questioning the morality of your mother, then remove it again before the mods got to see it. You could say you have an email record of the abuse, but I could then counter that you have falsified your email. Posts in the forums are different - many witnesses.

This is real; hummy.tv is a pretty civilised place (as far as I know, there's no accounting for what happens in PMs) but many other reaches of the Internet are not.

Email notifications of posts in private conversations contain the text of the post itself, and like MikeSh I (and I suspect many others) may well not go and read the actual post other than briefly to clear the unread message count. Suppose you were able to edit the post after the notification email was sent - you have no guarantee that the recipient has not already been and read the post, so even if we allow that the recipient needs to read the actual post, you still don't know when that happened.

Sorry, I stand by what I said before. Without knowledge of the designers' intentions, I can only draw conclusions from the available evidence and those conclusions are therefore opinions, but they are logical conclusions and therefore opinions that should be reasonably universal. If you are really bothered, there is a Xenforo forum to debate it on.
 
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raydon

Well-Known Member
You really are beginning to sound like a lawyer B.H. I started this thread as a simple request to the admins, not as a debate. You are not an admin here thankfully, and you do not speak for MikeSh or anyone else for that matter. It was you who chose to involve yourself and turn it into a debate. I don't need to ask myself anything, or got to Xenforo for answers either. I've already had my answer from Brian.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
So you don't have any interest in why things are as they are then? I find it a useful way of working. More like QA, I would say, than a lawyer - but isn't that necessary in this day and age?

For the record, I am told that it is possible to alter or remove the edit time limit on PMs - but I have still not discovered how and I have no intention of doing so on the forum I manage. I do not know what consequences that would have on the message digest in a notification email. As to whether I am "thankfully" not an admin on hummy.tv, you are welcome to your opinion. If you don't like me expressing mine, maybe you should adhere to the same principle.

The next version of the Xenforo forum software keeps full edit history and makes it available for inspection to the users - I am not sure what I think about that (although most casual readers are unlikely to delve into the history). If nothing else, it should persuade posters to think twice before clicking "post".
 

af123

Administrator
Staff member
For the record, I am told that it is possible to alter or remove the edit time limit on PMs - but I have still not discovered how and I have no intention of doing so on the forum I manage.
User group permissions:

 

Brian

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, I thought that it would be in User Group Permissions, and have asked Michael to look into it.
 
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