Wiki: Very Large Hard Drive - Clarification required

M

Matthew M

New Member
Hello all, :)

I understand this page is still a work in progress. I just wanted to contribute / suggest a change. As to me it's currently unclear. Unless I have just simply misunderstood of course! Apologies if I have! :)

*Tried to post the direct link to it...but don't have a high enough post count yet*

As the custom firmware is required to create the partitioning scheme and partitions.

The stock Humax firmware cannot read these drives at all (it will see them but consider them to have a zero size).
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As the stock firmware cannot read the drives at all. How is it possible to then install the custom firmware? Does the CFW installer have support baked in?

This leads me to believe that the command needs to be run on an externally connected drive? In the example however, the command is run on an internal drive.

As the drive in the example (Disk /dev/sda: 465.8 GiB) is supported with or without custom firmware.

Many thanks,

Matthew
 
I think the idea is that you first install CFW whilst the Humax still has an MBR/MSDOS partition internal disk, e.g. the one that came with the Humax.

Then upgrade the internal disk to a GPT partition disk larger than 2TB, once CFW is already installed.

Although it could work in theory, I suppose: if the install of the flash part of CFW is done from the USB stick whilst in the boot-loader, then it boots the newly installed CFW kernel, which does have GPT support, and then installs the rest of CFW to disk. I don't know if that works, as I've not tried it.
 
This is not relevant.

The OP does not appreciate that the Humax OS is installed in flash memory, not the HDD, and the CF modifications to the OS are therefore also in flash. Everything required to create the HDD formatting is available even without an HDD on line, and the USB portion of CF installation can be performed without a functioning HDD (if it is not already installed). CF 3.10 is required for GPT support.

The HDD tools need to be accessed through Telnet; all the fancy GUI stuff for the CF (ie the WebIF), and all the support packages, will then have to be loaded afterwards (they are on the HDD).
 
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Black Hole said:
The OP does not appreciate that the Humax OS is installed in flash memory.

The HDD tools need to be accessed through Telnet; all the fancy GUI stuff for the CF (ie the WebIF), and all the support packages, will then have to be loaded afterwards (they are on the HDD).
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Thanks for the clarification and both your posts. :)

I wasn't aware, not sure appreciate comes into it. I wasn't aware the Humax had flash memory. I've not seen it mentioned on the other wiki pages, at least. I'm pleased to hear that it does. Not all devices do of course. :)

For me, had the details you provided been on the Wiki, Black Hole. It would have saved the need for this post. Though I do appreciate it's a work in progress. We all learn and start from somewhere though. :)

Kind Regards,

Matthew
 
It's a perfectly valid use of the word "appreciate". If you would like to discuss English usage further, you have some catching up to do: https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/assume-v-presume.1453/

I don't write on the wiki, for several (now historical) reasons. I'm pretty sure the flash is mentioned there somewhere though. But you're right - it's something we know and don't think about, wrapped up in the distinction between "firmware" and "software" - see the Glossary (click). The HDR-FOX (and, indeed, the HD-FOX) works perfectly well without a HDD (without recording), so the operational firmware has to be somewhere else...
 
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Trev said:
Absolutely correct. For instance an abacus has no flash.:) Can't think of too many modern electrical devices though.
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Anything that has a hard drive providing bulk storage has to have some bootstrap code somewhere so that it can access the hard drive to get at the bulk storage in the first place - even if the full-fat operational software is stored on the hard drive and has to be loaded into volatile memory from it. If the bootstrap code storage is sufficient, the whole operational code can be in it with no need of a hard drive at all - as is the case with the stock HD/HDR-FOX.

That's why we (forum elders and experienced users) are completely familiar with the idea of Flash, and why others (only used to modern PCs) aren't - the bootstrap process and BIOS goes unnoticed these days (not the case in the late '80s / early '90s, when the BIOS boot was writ large on the screen while the PC slowly got itself going!).
 
Black Hole said:
This is not relevant.

The OP does not appreciate that the Humax OS is installed in flash memory, not the HDD, and the CF modifications to the OS are therefore also in flash.
Click to expand...

Personally, I found this reply somewhat harsh for someone new to the forums. I wasn't trying to tread on anyones toes, and am very greatful for all the work that has been done. Please see my first post in the Introductions forum - which as of yet has no replies. So perhaps I am not welcome?

I did also mention that if I had got it wrong, I was sorry in advance.

Matthew M said:
As to me it's currently unclear. Unless I have just simply misunderstood of course! Apologies if I have! :)
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It was relevant to me, without all the facts laid out in front of me as I couldn't fully answer what I was looking for.

Perhaps I should have looked harder but it seems my main mistake was posting on the forum in the first place? However I wanted to thank those involved for the work that had been done. This question was bugging me too. I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

Black Hole said:
Anything that has a hard drive providing bulk storage has to have some bootstrap code somewhere so that it can access the hard drive to get at the bulk storage in the first place - even if the full-fat operational software is stored on the hard drive and has to be loaded into volatile memory from it. If the bootstrap code storage is sufficient, the whole operational code can be in it with no need of a hard drive at all - as is the case with the stock HD/HDR-FOX.

That's why we (forum elders and experienced users) are completely familiar with the idea of Flash, and why others (only used to modern PCs) aren't - the bootstrap process and BIOS goes unnoticed these days (not the case in the late '80s / early '90s, when the BIOS boot was writ large on the screen while the PC slowly got itself going!).
Click to expand...

Just because a device has the ability to boot and can access a hard drive, does not mean it has the ability to create a partition table and partitions.

When you format a PC. Be it Windows, Linux, Mac. You have to provide some form of boot / installation media in order to achieve this capability. Even back in the days of floppies.

Whilst the Humax isn't a PC, it's not a given (unless in the know) that the utilities are in place without an appropriatleyformatted HDD.

Black Hole said:
I'm pretty sure the flash is mentioned there somewhere though. But you're right - it's something we know and don't think about, wrapped up in the distinction between "firmware" and "software" - see the Glossary (click). The HDR-FOX (and, indeed, the HD-FOX) works perfectly well without a HDD (without recording), so the operational firmware has to be somewhere else...
Click to expand...

It's pleasing to know. A PS4 for example is useless without a HDD. As all the gubbins is installed on it. :)

Trev said:
Absolutely correct. For instance an abacus has no flash.:) Can't think of too many modern electrical devices though.
Click to expand...

Stonehenge didn't either. Unless it was a flash / flicker of sunlight. :)

Ezra Pound said:
Flash is detailed in several places in the Wiki, there is one here :-
http://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Internal_Flash_Layout
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Thanks for the link!

Black Hole said:
I have updated the Quick Guide to Custom Firmware (click) to make it clear that the CF is loaded to Flash (it was implied before, but not explicitly stated).
Click to expand...

Thank you, I'm pleased my post made some contribution to clear things up.
 
Matthew M said:
So perhaps I am not welcome?

...it seems my main mistake was posting on the forum in the first place?
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Not at all! You're being too sensitive. Like in real life, it takes time to get used to people's on-line personalities, and you just happen not to be familiar with my turn of phrase.

Post 2 isn't relevant, in as much as there is no need for an offered GPT drive to have any particular existing format, so I said so and provided the proper information in third person. If I was being harsh, it was to the writer of post 2 - not you - and he's well used to things around here.

Matthew M said:
I'm pleased my post made some contribution to clear things up.
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That's what it's all about.

Matthew M said:
A PS4 for example is useless without a HDD. As all the gubbins is installed on it.
Click to expand...
It most certainly is not! There is a BIOS, and we're (effectively) talking about the BIOS here - it's just that the Humax has put the whole operational code into the BIOS. The difference is that "we" know how to access the Humax BIOS.

General question: As a newcomer, have you got up to speed with the info for newcomers?

https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/new-readers-start-here.839/

Newbies' Guide to the Forum (click)
 
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