Arq A/Com 5 problems

[trog]

There has been some change, this morning whilst watching 4/7 Ch049 still getting the usual brief black screen but no full pause with picture instead I am having the screen go black and displaying "Pause" and showing the time but the sound from the watched program is still heard. I then have to press the remotes pause button to get the picture back.
Edit Just had full pause with Picture, I had hoped the change was a sign of something being done for the better.

 

[ColinOfRame]

Sorry to be late on the bandwagon, but bad audio would be a step up for me on ARQ A.
I have been having issues with a HDR for months with pixellation and dropouts on all channels. Spend £250 for a installer to upgrade existing 5 dipole aerial to 11 dipole one. Marginal improvement.
About 4 weeks later problems reoccur. Neighbour mentions he has similar problems, might be do with 5G masts at local exchange - worth getting in touch with an outfit called Recover that has been setup to cure these issues. Recover engineer spend a couple of hours troubleshooting changing aerial pole for cranked one and again margin signal quaity, but bearable for 3 months - but 5 weeks ago Sky Arts stopping recording.
Investigation discover all channels on ARQ A have gone awol (50% Strength, 10% Quality on Manual Search). Navigate Freeview website. No issues on Plympton . Wait a week, the same . Phone Freeview tell there are shown so why has transponder disappeared. They say there are ongoing maintenance issue with Caradon main transmitter this be cause. Wait a week, phone again, same reply - and another week same reply.
Today try manual search again - 50% strength but quality is bouncing about above 50%. Retune - 22 channels found. All on EPG. My LUCKY DAY. But short lived, all channels give errors. Manual tune shows back to 50% Strength, 10% Quality.
All other transponders are fine, ( Strength 70%, Quality 100%). But to confuse issues, after one effort to Auto tune I have pixellation on HD channels. Found it had found Caradon on channel 22 - opposite direction to where aerial is pointing and opposite polarity - go figure.
Any suggestions ?

 

[Rodders53]

Caradon Hill Horizontal PSBs 100 kW erp, COMs 50 kW erp. Line fed.
BBC A 28+ D3&4 25+ BBC B (HD) 22+ SDN 21+ Arq A 24- Arq B 27-

Plympton Vertical, all 400 Watts erp. PSBs line fed daughter and COMs off air relay (of Caradon).
BBC A40 D3&4 42 BBC B (HD) 45 SDN 41 Arq A 44 Arq B 47

So no simple frequency related issue with Arq A from Plympton . Likely no line of sight so diffracted signals and standing waves (where some frequencies get reinforced and others cancelled out) and / or reception through trees making aerial positioning critical and liable to change.

Receiving a different transmitter off the back of an aerial is not unusual. I had pretty good analogue reception of Hemel Hempstead on my 18 element contact aerial pointing to Crystal Palace back in the day.
Always manual tune receivers in such situations rather than use the auto tune feature.

I assume the predictions from https://www.freeview.co.uk/corporate/detailed-transmitter-information for your home are best for Plympton and poor for Caradon Hill? If Caradon is good it may be worth trying receiving from there?

BTW there's only one active dipole in an aerial... so I'm at a loss what your 5 and 11 references are about. Unless you mean something like this https://www.blake-uk.com/5-bay-xkdmx-high-gain-aerial-ftype.html and https://www.blake-uk.com/aerials-tv...in-aerial-original-std-2-group-k-ch-2148.html from another manufacturer?

 

[prpr]

so I'm at a loss what your 5 and 11 references are about

He means elements. Literacy seemingly not a strong point.

 

[EEPhil]

Literacy seemingly not a strong point

So much so that I couldn't work out what the gripe was.

 

[ColinOfRame]

Freeview predictions are best for Caradon. Output is 50 times greater than Plympton but twice distance, but we are half way up a hill in the lee side from Caradon. Plympton is in line of sight. Where the aerial was put up 5 years ago I requested it to be pointed to Caradon but installer said he could not see the Caradon signal from the roof so put a 5 elements aerial up. This worked fine for 4 years.
(Sorry for mixing elements and dipoles up, I have little aerial experience more IT background. Literacy is not my best point but after a recent stroke words and sentences do not flow well. Apologies for stilting style)
Further installer and Resolve engineer both had trouble getting good signal from Caradon. It seems than the Caradon signal is swamping Plympton with a bad signal. I was under the impression that a mast head filter was fitted, presumably for Caradon, but could be also be for 5G signals.
But still do understand why only this one transponder is affected, others all fine - and on 3 calls why Freeview have not been able figure it out, and say call back next Monday when we get in of reports of transmitter faults.

 

[SemiRamis]

Literacy is not my best point but after a recent stroke words and sentences do not flow well. Apologies for stilting style)

They're quick to shoot down any offender. Shoot first, ask later.

Notice the absence of apologies even after such a serious illness.

 

[Rodders53]

Exactly how long ago was the new aerial and other system changes done? It may still be under guarantee? If so call the installer back to rectify the problem.

A picture of the aerial would allow comment on likely quality / gain etc.,.?

A nearby postcode would allow me the use of prediction tools (Wolfbane and Freeview detailed) to see the numbers and get path profiles for more accurate comment. (One of a shop, pub, church, school or similar within 100 metres of your home would be ideal). Then I can comment further.

Speak to neighbours to see if they are similarly affected for their TV reception?

Post the Signal and Quality measurements from the Signal Diagnostics for each frequency from Plympton, it may show some sort of pattern? You could even do the same for Caradon's frequencies without actually storing them into the PVR.

 

[Black Hole]

You could even do the same for Caradon's frequencies without actually storing them into the PVR.

I'm not sure that's true. HD-FOX and HDR-FOX only offer signal detection for saved UHF channels, whether via Menu >> Settings >> System >> Signal Detection or via the hidden service menu's tuner test function.

 

[Rodders53]

I'm not sure that's true. HD-FOX and HDR-FOX only offer signal detection for saved UHF channels, whether via Menu >> Settings >> System >> Signal Detection or via the hidden service menu's tuner test function.

Doh! Of course not. But it is sort of true when in the manual tuning sub menu, when the metering is shown. (Waning powers mean I wasn't 100% clear first time ).

Used it frequently when caravanning to find the best transmitter from known frequencies with the HDR and moving the aerial about. No longer have a caravan, so not used it for some time; hence my mistake.

One does need to select DVB-T or -T2 according to the mode transmitted as well. Not especially easy, nor especially hard to do. But may be a step too far in this user's case?

 

[Black Hole]

But it is sort of true when in the manual tuning sub menu

I hadn't thought of that, but you would have to be sure not to click search!

 

[ColinOfRame]

Exactly how long ago was the new aerial and other system changes done? It may still be under guarantee? If so call the installer back to rectify the problem.

Initial installation 4 years ago. Replacement aerial 6 months, Restore retune 5 months ago. Restore engineer was free service funded by Mobile carriers so no guarantees.

A picture of the aerial would allow comment on likely quality / gain etc.,.?

Restore engineer did raise aerial to full high on pole

A nearby postcode would allow me the use of prediction tools (Wolfbane and Freeview detailed) to see the numbers and get path profiles for more accurate comment. (One of a shop, pub, church, school or similar within 100 metres of your home would be ideal). Then I can comment further.

The postcode is PL11 2PU (approx elevation 17.5 metres in shadow of hill 59metres high approx 1km away (NW) ).
Caradon transmitter is 16 miles away broadcasting at 100kw (very approx NW )
Plympton transmitter is 8 miles away broadcasting 400w. ( approx 85 E )
Torpoint OR Exchange ( approx 85 E ) with 15-20 metre masts
And I forgot to mention from 45E to 135E Devonport dock yard ( approx sea level )

Speak to neighbours to see if they are similarly affected for their TV reception?

2 responders from 15 houses, both OK. One aerial pointed to Caradon 3metres mast and 2 metres above our house. Other a very OAP, sure not understands signifance of chanel name.

Post the Signal and Quality measurements from the Signal Diagnostics for each frequency from Plympton, it may show some sort of pattern? You could even do the same for Caradon's frequencies without actually storing them into the PVR.

BBC A SDN D3+4 ARQ A BBC B ARQ B
Plympton CH40 75/100, Ch41 77/100, Ch42 71/100, Ch44 54/10, Ch45 60/100(HD), Ch47 70/100
Caradon Ch28 60/100 Ch21 58/60 Ch25 58/100 Ch24 58/65 Ch22 64/100 Ch27 60/80 ALL Quality signal fluctuate 50-100

I Have saved Channel 24 at is is presenting a better quality than channel 44.

 

[Black Hole]

BBC A SDN D3+4 ARQ A BBC B ARQ B
Plympton CH40 75/100, Ch41 77/100, Ch42 71/100, Ch44 54/10, Ch45 60/100(HD), Ch47 70/100

You've listed 6 UHF channels but only 5 mux names. Is ARQ A on UHF44? Presuming so, it seems odd that UHF44 is the only one down on quality. Are you sure that's not the "local" mux (usually much lower power)?

 

[ColinOfRame]

Sorry, I spaced out in columns but the forum removes "unnecessary spaces". Tab does not work in editing.
1 BBC A, 2 SDN, 3 D3+4, 4ARQ A, 5 BBC B, 6ARQ B
Freeview detailed coverage checker gives all 6 transponders 0.40kw inc Ch44, Caradon 100kw.

"it seems odd that UHF44 is the only one down on quality".
That is what is baffling me. Unless a warship has come in for repair and forgotten to turn off its jamming of Russian channels? Not unheard of scenario.
Also baffling as why Caradon does not get a better signal when pointing and polarity correct.

 

[Black Hole]

Sorry, I spaced out in columns but the forum removes "unnecessary spaces". Tab does not work in editing.

I got it wrong anyway, I'm not sure how I counted only 5.

Seems like a long shot, but perhaps there is something about your installation causing a notch at UHF44.

 

[Luke]

Sorry, I spaced out in columns but the forum removes "unnecessary spaces". Tab does not work in editing.

Not always.
Using BB "Code":

         BBC A        SDN          D3+4         ARQ A       BBC B            ARQ B
Plympton CH40 75/100, Ch41 77/100, Ch42 71/100, Ch44 54/10, Ch45 60/100(HD), Ch47 70/100
Caradon  Ch28 60/100  Ch21 58/ 60  Ch25 58/100  Ch24 58/65  Ch22 64/100      Ch27 60/ 80 ALL Quality signal fluctuate 50-100

If you want to examine the BB codes that have been used in a post you can do so by clicking on the post's reply button. You may have to then click on the [] icon which is near the top right of the reply box to see the BB codes.

Also baffling as why Caradon does not get a better signal when pointing and polarity correct.

Tri-booms are more disadvantaged for Caradon's frequencies, compared to higher frequencies, than most other wideband and appropriate group aerials.

ATV aerial gain tests : all the gain curves – A.T.V. Poles, Brackets, Clamps & Aerials

www.aerialsandtv.com

I requested it to be pointed to Caradon but installer said he could not see the Caradon signal from the roof

2 responders from 15 houses, both OK. One aerial pointed to Caradon 3metres mast and 2 metres above our house.

If you look at close by installations which transmitter direction do they favour?
There may be some old unused aerials but that should give some clue to as to whether Caradon should be receivable. The Caradon frequencies have been in the lower group for decades.

 

[Rodders53]

Call the aerial installer back under Guarantee... it was only 6 months ago.
It may only need the aerial raising up a bit to change the signal level on the Arq A frequency (maybe at the expense of one of the others, though).

Wolfbane predicts for that provided postcode at 10 metres above the ground NO LINE OF SIGHT from either transmitter so diffracted signals = standing waves.
47 dBuV/m for Caradon and 45 dBuV/m Plympton.
Raising the receive aerial to 12 metres above ground Plympton becomes (just) line of sight and 48dBuV/m, but diffracted signals off the ridge(s) are still be present as well. (Caradon is 100% diffracted signals still, but now at 49 dBuV/m.)
The path profiles have that point in a very low spot.

Those S/Q numbers for Caradon through the back of the reflector suggest to me that a suitable aerial pointed correctly should work... but I'm not on site, of course. The signals are diffracted but careful aerial positioning should get them all roughly equal signal level.

Freeview interference predictions are all green for both transmitters but the numbers are better for Caradon Hill - especially the COMs.

That is a Tri-boom aerial. Justin of ATV aerials Sheffield has done some tests on one.

Test of “economy Tri Boom” the MUX Magician – A.T.V. Poles, Brackets, Clamps & Aerials

www.aerialsandtv.com

Note it's gain is poorer at group A Caradon cf group B Plympton.

A good quality Yagi 18 element (group K) would out perform that beast and have lower wind loading. https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/aerials/atvs-choice-of-tv-aerials-and-why-we-chose-them

Standing waves are where some frequencies are reinforced and others cancelled out... that is why 44 is poorer than the others.

Getting the aerial higher may be necessary. A better, stronger, pole and stand off T-K brackets may be required to do that, though. https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/poles-and-masts is essential reading for such items.

 

[ColinOfRame]

More aerials point to Plympton 5:1. The restore engineer raised aerial up about 4 or 5 metres more, but it did not change signal strength much. A bit that peeved that the installer that replaced the aerial could not get a better one after being asked to prioritise Caradon .

Thanks to everyone who chimed in here. I have a satellite dish on the roof already but the software on the Humax Freesat box did not compare with T2 HDR custom software so I am going to buy a Raspberry Pi TV hat to just download Sky Arts to a NAS, that solves the problem easiest and more cost effectively.

A very big thanks to the contributors to the custom software that is still being undated.

 

[EEPhil]

Edit Just had full pause with Picture, I had hoped the change was a sign of something being done for the better.

For the first time in ages tried to watch something on 4seven on the Aura. Damned thing kept stopping, requiring changing channels and back to resume watching. So the most recent update didn't solve all the problems.

 

[trog]

For the first time in ages tried to watch something on 4seven on the Aura. Damned thing kept stopping, requiring changing channels and back to resume watching. So the most recent update didn't solve all the problems.

No it did nothing for that issue. I have been recording Below deck on 4Xtra daily to monitor the problem with no sign of improvement and it seemed to be getting worse with Thursday having pausing every few minutes but then on Friday the whole 1 hour show completed without any pauses at all.