Assume v. Presume

[MikeSh]

Topically, Boris used the phrase to describe his recovery from Covid.

Shows how much attention I pay to his speakings.
But 'butcher's dog' does kind of fit him.

 

[EEPhil]

But 'butcher's dog' does kind of fit him.

Never mind the dog, I could just imagine Boris wearing a butcher's striped apron. I'm off now to get therapy!

 

[Black Hole]

Richard Hammond (Big, at the Volkswagen factory) spoke about the "rail station" and the "railway station", but not "train station". Deep joy. (Amazing factory)

 

[Deleted member 473]

Interesting one, that. I can't find a reliable way of locating either in Google Maps. I get all the tram stops too, in Sheffield.

Ah, you aren't going to like it. Railroad Station finds them.

 

[Black Hole]

Ah, you aren't going to like it. Railroad Station finds them.

At least that's a traditional term (in America!). iOS autocorrect tries to capitalise whenever you write "main street".

 

[Deleted member 473]

It was always the railway station to me. Even British Rail, not British Trains. What about you?

 

[Black Hole]

It was always the railway station to me. Even British Rail, not British Trains. What about you?

Yeah, and this pedant thinks that calling a railway station a "train station" is like talking to 5 year olds. For 3 year olds it's a "choo choo station".

 

[MikeSh]

The other day an historian presenting from a train on a preserved railway told the camera that "In [yyyy] a six coach locomotive left .... ".
Disappointing.

 

[prpr]

an historian

I always hate that, regardless of whether it's considered correct or not.
It tends to lead to sloppy sounding speech i.e. an 'istorian.

 

[Black Hole]

I always hate that, regardless of whether it's considered correct or not.
It tends to lead to sloppy sounding speech i.e. an 'istorian.

I suspect the h is supposed to be silent, so "'istorian" is correct rather than a case of a dropped h*.

Originally (or so I am lead to believe by the likes of QI), what we now know of an an orange was "a norange".

* I have been contemplating that (say) the Greek letters have specific names used in English, with clear phonetic spellings (alpha, beta, gamma...) which cannot represent their pronunciation when used to form a word, while the English alphabet appears not to.

This isn't just a gap in my post-formal education, I have come across "aitch" as the spelling for the letter h, but that does not appear in even the old dictionaries I have to hand. I did a spot check on Greek letters, and alpha and beta are listed but upsilon is not.

 

[EEPhil]

I always hate that, regardless of whether it's considered correct or not.
It tends to lead to sloppy sounding speech i.e. an 'istorian.

I suspect the h is supposed to be silent, so "'istorian" is correct rather than a case of a dropped h*.

This is one of those things where I don't care that the h is supposed to be silent. Like prpr I hate it. I cringed in an episode of Inspector Morse where he referred to an 'otel.

 

[MikeSh]

I suspect the h is supposed to be silent, so "'istorian" is correct

Huh. I've never thought of that. From my schoolboy French I think they pronounce hotel (with the hat on the 'o') as "otel", so it could be valid. (In fact IIRC they drop the h in writing sometimes, as in "d'otel" - or is that my imagination?)

I actually find it easier to say "an historian/hotel/whatever", without dropping the h, than prefixing with only "a". By now it's hard coded into my brain wiring.
So as I was taught to use "an" I still do.
Hate away prpr

 

[Black Hole]

Or perhaps only some initial aitches are supposed to be silent, and it's only the silent ones which should be "an"?

Either way, I regard either "a hotel" or "an 'otel" as acceptable, but "an hotel" is clearly ridiculous if we assume the purpose of mutating the indefinite article is for pronunciation - much the way Welsh mutates the beginnings of words to sound better according to what precedes them (and makes it bloody difficult to use a Welsh dictionary).

 

[Deleted member 473]

I need a nacorn.

 

[Deleted member 473]

One thin I am findin irritatin is Pritti Patel's silent gs all the time, whatever she says.

 

[Deleted member 473]

Or perhaps only some initial aitches are supposed to be silent, and it's only the silent ones which should be "an"?

Either way, I regard either "a hotel" or "an 'otel" as acceptable, but "an hotel" is clearly ridiculous if we assume the purpose of mutating the indefinite article is for pronunciation - much the way Welsh mutates the beginnings of words to sound better according to what precedes them (and makes it bloody difficult to use a Welsh dictionary).

I agree, apart from an 'otel, which sounds slovenly to me.

I don't think we can fall back on istorical precedents to justify 'merkins saying urb for herb. If we do, then squirrels will have to eat hnuts!

 

[prpr]

Parker: 'ome, m'lady?
Lady P: Home, Parker

 

[EEPhil]

One thin I am findin irritatin is Pritti Patel's silent gs all the time, whatever she says.

I hadn't noticed. Mainly because I turn the sound down when she's babbling away! From your description it sounds like a common problem that has been going on for years. I remember a rather old British film where some copper was announcing on the radio that the suspect was carryin' a bag.

'merkins saying urb for herb.

Why would a pubic wig be talking?

 

[MikeSh]

One thin I am findin irritatin is Pritti Patel's silent gs all the time, whatever she says.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Black Hole]

I don't think we can fall back on istorical precedents to justify 'merkins saying urb for herb.

It doesn't matter what 'merkins say, that's a different language. We know they don't spell aluminium properly, but even spelled properly they don't pronounce solder right.