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Bug: SCART output unexpectedly switches to RGB mode

Discussion in 'HDR-FOX T2 Freeview Recorder' started by trellis, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. trellis

    trellis New Member

    Hello all!

    I'm new here, but have been a very happy PVR-9200T users for several years.

    Based on my pleasant experiences with my 9200, I recently recommended that my parents went for a HDR-FOX T2, assuming it would be just as good, but with the added benefit of HD recording.

    Unfortunately, it seems to have an annoying bug - just wondering if anyone else has experienced this, or knows of a fix maybe?

    If the Humax is in standby, but in the process of recording a scheduled programme, and the power is turned ON while the recording is in progress, the SCART output changes to RGB mode. The menu still claims it's set to "CVBS", but the output is definitely RGB.

    The only way out is to set the output to RGB in the menu, then back to CVBS again. Only then will it revert to CVBS output. If you don't do anything, it keeps outputting RGB forever, even though the menu continues to lie that it's set to CVBS.

    It doesn't happen if the Humax is already ON when recording starts, or if it's switched ON after the programme has finished recording. It only occurs if you switch ON while recording is in progress.

    It may seem insignificant, but in our particular installation it presents a problem.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks!
     
  2. brianmt

    brianmt Member

    I don't know you're setup but why use CVBS anyway, quality is really poor, RGB much better option.
    You only get the the benefit of HD by using HDMI output
     
  3. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felonius Gru

    You have explained the problem well, and it sounds to me like a Humax bug that has not been picked up - chances are this scenario has never been tried before. I take it you need CVBS then.

    The first thing to check is that you are using the most recent official firmware. Don't assume it is up-to-date straight out of the box, or that it will update itself. If you look in my Index (in the pinned topics at the top of the forum listing) you will find links to the firmware downloads - the one you want is currently 1.02.20.

    If you have the latest revision and it is still playing up then it is worth reporting to Humax, although I have my doubts anything will be done about it now (you never know - if there are enough accumulated bug reports they might do another firmware release). Your easiest way forward is to get a new telly (which, frankly, can be done at quite modest cost and significant loss of bulk) with the new-fangled HDMI wachamacallit.
     
  4. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    The OP has a box capable of outputting RGB (the best analogue connection along with component) and a display with a RGB capable scart (He doesn't say the picture disappears, he can still view the menus) and want's to use the worst possible video connection - Composite which produces major picture problems from crosstalk between luminance and chrominance. Why ?

    Presumably the TV is not HD Ready otherwise why not HDMI ?
     
  5. trellis

    trellis New Member

    Thanks for the replies.

    I will check the firmware version and upgrade if necessary. If that doesn't sort it, I will report to Humax, but as you say it's unlikely they will fix it as probably very few people need to use the CVBS output anyway. My hopes are not high.

    Yes, CVBS output is required. We cannot use RGB, unfortunately. The whys and wherefores are beyond the scope of this thread.
     
  6. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Just use the RCA Phono outputs Yellow (Composite) and Stereo Analogue Audio to a Scart to Phono adaptor. (just above the scart)
     
    trellis likes this.
  7. trellis

    trellis New Member

    Thanks! Good lord, I didn't even know those connectors were there! I think I may even have a SCART-to-phono cable in my cable stash - so problem probably solved :)
    I feel a bit silly now.
    Thanks again.
     
  8. MartinLiddle

    MartinLiddle Super Moderator Staff Member

    It would be interesting to know why if you have the time.
     
  9. trellis

    trellis New Member

    Sure, I just didn't want to make the thread confusing :)

    The problem is with the Panasonic TV. This is capable of displaying RGB, but when it receives an RGB signal, it displays this to the exclusion of all else, including its built-in tuner or any other inputs. Even if the Humax is switched off, it continues to send an RGB signal on the SCART (albeit with no picture), which switches the TV into RGB mode, so all you see is a black screen, and the TV effectively becomes inoperative. Selecting any other input on the TV gives sound, but no picture.
    So enabling the RGB output on any SCART-connected device effectively disables the TV for all other sources.
    DVD players and other set-top boxes cause the same problem if their SCART output is set to RGB, but this is normally fixable by disabling their RGB output. The bug with the Humax means it keeps re-enabling RGB, so is the first device that has actually caused a problem.

    You may say "just replace the TV" - well yes, but unfortunately all currently-available TVs contain crap speakers, and I know of no models that have external speaker terminals. I could set up a separate audio system, but I just know that my parents would never bother to use it and would always use the TV's internal speakers. If only someone would make a flat-screen TV with decent built-in speakers, or external speaker terminals, all our problems would be over.
     
  10. brianmt

    brianmt Member

    I find it rather odd that you will put up with really poor video ie cvbs but not put up with inferior sound. Personally I would be more peeved at sub standard video, the Humax provides excellent pics via rgb but crap on cvbs.
     
  11. fenlander

    fenlander Active Member

    My TV has a full set of audio outputs and so far as I know there's nothing unusual about it. You could connect a set of 2.1 active speakers - the sort that are used with PCs - to the headphone out socket at little cost or inconvenience.

    Also most decent flatscreens have facilities to fine-tune the audio output. I also find it a little odd that you damn ALL modern TVs for poor speakers but are prepared to put up with severely sub-standard video performance. That's a sweeping judgement in line with saying that no modern TVs have speaker terminals. Just not true.

    Perhaps your parents' priorities are not the same as your own?
     
  12. oijonesey

    oijonesey Hummy.tv SEO Guru

    I kind of relate to where trellis is coming from. One good thing about CRT TV's is that they had plenty of room for good sized cone speakers with big magnets on the back so you could get a nice rich (and loud!) sound out of them. My old Sony tube TV knocks spots off any of the flat screens I've ever heard because it can crank up the bass and blat it through proper cones. Flat TV's just don't have the room for those. Now having said that I've got an LG LCD TV and it does do a pretty good job with the audio but it is quite a big TV so maybe has more room for flatter speakers.

    In terms of Fenlanders suggestion if you combined the right set of powered speakers with a power saving extension lead i.e. one that cuts the power to the sockets when the master socket consumption reduces then effectively the add on speaker set is only powered up while the TV is actually on - not when it's on standby or off by the switch and it would be a set up and forget thing for your parents once the speaker volume was balanced to the TV volume they'd only ever need the volume control on the TV. Actually I might go and do this myself now I come to think of it!!!!!
     
  13. mcentee2

    mcentee2 Member

    I concur with the OP re Sound options (long post, but worth it, well to me anyway).

    I've recently gone from a Panasonic with built in surround-sound with rear/front/centre/subwoofer speaker terminals, to a new Samsung ue40d6530 LED with two crappy speakers in.

    Although I can understand space restrcitions for internal speakers, I can't really understand why flatscreen TVs do cannot cater for Dolby Surround internally with exterior speaker connections like older CRT TVs.

    The only way to get good surround-sound seems to be via the Optical out into an AV capable surround system (whether it is a sound bar or other system).

    Luckily I still have an older Sony DVD home-cinema system (DAV-DZ560) that has an optical in "TV Source" option, so I can feed the TV opt out, into it and get surround.

    Two main problems (or should I say, areas of compromise):

    1) The Optical out (or HDMI ARC) on the TV won't output anything but stereo even if the source is multichannel (i.e HD broadcast via the Hummy HDR, or input from DVD/Bluray via main HDMI input), so I have to make do with Dolby Pro interpretation of a stereo signal that *was originally* Dolby Dig or DTS :(

    2) As I am using a Hummy HDR if I HDMI from HDR to TV, and then Optical out of TVto the AV amp I get a delay on the sound vs the picture (picture ahead), which I cannot compensate for as audio settings on TV and HDR will only *delay* the sound even more.

    Now then, "why don't you connect the HDR to the AV amp direct via Optical" I hear you ask.

    Yep, great, no audio delay then, and I get multichannel when HDR source is multichannel, and I get AV Dolby Pro when source is stereo.

    But:

    That doesn't solve everything, as I now only have AV surround from the HDR sources - nothing from the TV's other inputs ie Blu Ray, Wii etc that still come out of the TV speakers.

    Aha, I hear you say again, well get another AV amp/home-cinema system with built in Blu Ray and /or more audio inputs available....well.....

    .... the Sony DVD surround AV system has a headphione socket on the front, which apparently is a rare as rocking horse poo these days on any other Blu Ray home cinema system :0

    Othe AV only amps are much too big and over the top for my usage and space under the TV.

    Maybe one day....
     
  14. trellis

    trellis New Member

    I have so far been unable to find one with speaker outputs. If you know of one, please tell me the model number so I can go and buy it!

    Headphone and line-outs don't count.

    Picture and sound quality are equally important. I consider both together. I will not put up with awful sound just to get a better picture, nor vice-versa.

    Frankly, I'm baffled (pun unintended) that TV manufacturers, who spend so much effort on providing the ultimate in picture quality, don't put better speakers in their sets. I have no evidence obviously, but I would guess that the majority of TV buyers will only ever use the TV's built-in speakers. You'd think the manufacturer would make a bit more of an effort.

    Anyway, this thread has now got severely off-topic, which I knew would happen if I mentioned why I needed CVBS output.
     
  15. mcentee2

    mcentee2 Member

    Quite correct, apologies for my rant! :)
     
  16. brianmt

    brianmt Member

    ....but you are putting up with very inferior video soft, misregistration, artfacts on edges, moire patterning etc quite frankly unwatchable , sorry just don't understand your argument.
     
  17. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felonius Gru

    :forehead_slap: doh!
     
  18. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Sadly the laws of physics apply. A speaker cone moves forward and an equal and opposite audio output emenates from the rear of the speaker. The two will cancell each other out with a speaker without some form of enclosure. The ultimate is a so called infinite baffle, a board of infinite size that precludes the rear antiphase output from cancelling the forward output (not too practical), the smaller the baffle the higher the frequency cut off. Enclosing the speaker in a sealed box avoids the interference but restricts speaker cone movement you need a large air volume hence a big box for a reasonable efficiency. CRT's have more room so they often have fairly decent sound. It's impossible to do this in a flat screen TV there's no space so the sound is no better than the average transistor radio. Hifi kit gets over this by providing lots of power for the sealed baffle high frequency speakers (typically 100W a channel) and a seperate low frequency bass woofer separarately amplified. My kit for example using small surround speakers has 5 x 130Watts per channel and a seperate 170 Watt subwoofer. The amplifier weighs way more than the TV. A large loudspeaker can produce an impressive volume from as little as 1o watts RMS not so the modern tiny designs.
     
  19. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felonius Gru

    I'm not unhappy with the speakers in my LG, but then to me "it's only telly". Alternatively you could think of it as a conspiracy to sell more cinema sound systems.
     
  20. gomezz

    gomezz Well-Known Member

    If you want to get good audio then feeding it to a half-decent hi-fi amp and stereo speakers will give better results for less money than an AV amp with surround speakers - except you do not get the whizz-bangery of explosions coming at you from all directions. If the first is a 10 and the second is a 7 then the sound from a modern flat-screen TV will be at best a 3 - on a par with an MP3 player with bud earphones.