Changing Channel Numbers After Retune

[MymsMan]

is it sweeps away recordings that have only been partially watched

You could add the 'Time since last watched' condition to give yourself a grace period before sweeping

As you have discovered Sweeper, Tunefix and others can be daunting at first but with a little effort you realize they are not that bad and solve a lot of problems

 

[EEPhil]

I've been perfectly happy with the product with minimal CF for almost 10 years, but it is getting increasingly difficult to follow the CF thread.

You want to try following it when you don't have a product with any CF.

 

[/df]

...
Who would have thought it, a command line interface prompt on a television recorder

busybox, including a POSIX shell, is probably burnt into the firmware of lots of TVs (eg, Sony, Samsung) and PVRs. The grail is to get at it, via telnet or otherwise.

You can even run a C compiler on the Humax - it elevates the phrase 'programming the VCR' to a different level

Not to forget C++, perl (of a sort), SQL, Jim TCL, ...

In fact, a PVR like the HD/R is remarkably like an image processing minicomputer rig with attached array processor that might have filled half a 19" rack 30 years ago, but 2 orders of magnitude better in speed and storage, both RAM and disk, and all packed into a pizza box.

 

[Code is a Hole]

You could add the 'Time since last watched' condition

Yes I could, thank you for that suggestion, but, would that mean once I had finished watching the whole recording it would linger before being swept away, it's not a major issue, rather a niggle or an annoyance, mostly I watch a recording all the way through, it is fascinating going back to a series folder again later and seeing everything has be made tidy, especially when doing back to back catch-up, all the watched episodes have been filed

Not to forget C++, perl (of a sort), SQL, Jim TCL, ...

Sub titles please

 

[RobH1]

Sub titles please

Quite

 

[pkb4809]

Hi All

I too am having problems with channels ending up in odd locations, in my case BBC1 at channel 751 and BBC2 at 752, after the Winter Hill transmitter changes enforced a retune today. I've installed the tunefix package and edited '/mod/boot/tunefix.conf' to add statements to force those channels back to 1 and 2, respectively ... it now looks like (text in RED is what I've added) ...

REGION:North West
FORCE:1:BBC ONE N West
FORCE:2:BBC TWO
FORCE:3:ITV
FORCE:4:Channel 4
FORCE:33:ITV +1
FORCE:101:BBC ONE HD
FORCE:102:BBC TWO HD
FORCE:103:ITV HD

... but after a retune and a reboot, no change

Is there something I'm missing, is there some other activity I need to perform to get tunefix to make the changes as specified by those "FORCE" statements?
Cheers, Phil

 

[prpr]

I've installed the tunefix package and edited '/mod/boot/tunefix.conf'

Why have you hand-edited this instead of using the GUI?

REGION:North West
FORCE:1:BBC ONE N West
FORCE:2:BBC TWO

That is the old syntax. The colons should be pipe characters - | - a shifted backslash on the keyboard:
REGION|North West
FORCE|1|BBC ONE N West
FORCE|2|BBC TWO

When did you install this? Can't have been recently (it was changed in May 2016) as the default config. file wouldn't have been like that.
I would suggest you delete the file and either uninstall and reinstall tunefix or go to a command prompt and run /mod/boot/xinit.d/tunefix install which will re-create the config. file properly.

I too am having problems with channels ending up in odd locations, in my case BBC1 at channel 751 and BBC2 at 752, after the Winter Hill transmitter changes enforced a retune today.

You should have installed tunefix-update then. It would have fixed all that.
In any case, there is another retune for Winter Hill on 22 April, so to avoid any more hassle...

 

[pkb4809]

You should have installed tunefix-update then. It would have fixed all that.

... with 20:20 hindsight, clearly ... but I've never had any problems with channel numbering until yesterday's retune ... so I didn't have need for either tunefix or tunefix-update till then ... I installed them both last night, but that seemed to make no difference whatsoever and the info in the Wiki is unclear on whether they interact and if so how ... e.g. do I need tunefix-update to implement the changes made using tunefix? ... nothing changed with both installed so I removed tunefix-update and tried just with tunefix ...

When did you install this? Can't have been recently (it was changed in May 2016) as the default config. file wouldn't have been like that.

... installed last night, what was installed did start out with the pipe characters, and my first go at editing used those (as above but with all colons as pipe characters) ... that made no difference ... and everything I could find in the Wiki and on the forum showed colons so I edited to that and tried again ... same outcome ... then I tried asking here ...

Why have you hand-edited this instead of using the GUI?

... what GUI? ... I followed the information in the Wiki (wiki/Custom_Firmware_Package_Notes#Tunefix) and used webif > Diagnostics > File Editor to do my edits, what do you suggest I could have done differently?

In any case, there is another retune for Winter Hill on 22 April, so to avoid any more hassle...

... hopefully you'll have finished that sentence and I'll have sorted this by April

Cheers, Phil

 

[Black Hole]

I've never had any problems with channel numbering until yesterday's retune

If services end up on the wrong LCNs after a retune (with no tunefix involved), it's because alternative transmitters were picked up during the tuning.

The way it works is that (hopefully) the best signal BBC1 ends up at LCN1, and duplicates get bumped to high numbers. If the tuning process picks up transmitters from multiple regions (not just multiple transmitters) a menu asks you to choose your primary region at the end of the tuning, which then bumps the non-preferred region to LCNs 800+.

If you've got BBC1 on LCN751 (before tunefix) and no alternative BBC1 on LCN1, I don't know how to explain that [see next post]. What I expect is that you have something tuned at LCN1, but it may be a poor (or non-existent) signal which reception conditions happened to make available at the time of tuning.

Sorting out a mess is not the purpose of tunefix, tunefix is about imposing personal preferences on a correctly-tuned system and you need a correctly-tuned stable system in the first place. Similarly, tunefix-update is only sensible once a stable tuning has been established and then customised (if required), and with the pre-requisite that the system reboots regularly.

You need to run another retune, but uninstall tunefix first. Bring tunefix back only once you have the "proper" baseline of LCNs.

If you need more help, after a retune tell us what UHF channels are reported by WebIF >> Diagnostics >> Mux Info or Menu >> Settings >> System >> Signal Detection, and the first half of your postcode.

More info: Things Every... (click) section 2 (and further links from there, particularly this one: https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/advice-for-tuning-multiple-regions.3429/).

 

[Black Hole]

If you've got BBC1 on LCN751 (before tunefix) and no alternative BBC1 on LCN1, I don't know how to explain that.

Well, yes, I've worked it out now. This is typical when the main-stream services are in a transition phase - the main multiplex (or "mux", the UHF channel which carries multiple digital services) is moving or has moved to a new channel number which is not in the traditional reception band for that transmitter.

Before digital TV, when we only had 5 services, each service occupied a whole UHF channel. To avoid interference from transmitters in adjacent areas, different frequency groups were used... but now (enabled by digital transmission properties) all areas are being migrated into a common group (allowing the resulting spare bandwidth to be used for other purposes... eg mobile phones). This means that some areas with aerials designed for their traditional frequency group will no longer be able to receive the migrated services without changing their aerials. Been there, done that - I had to change my Group C/D aerial for a wideband aerial.

To give the viewers in the area time to invest in new aerials, for a transition period the old mux continues to be broadcast but with BBC1 on LCN751 (etc). If you cannot now get BBC1 on LCN1 at all, that is a strong indication that you will need a new aerial in the near future. The BBC1 on LCN751 will be switched off before too long (regardless of whether you renumber it yourself).

More info: https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/refe...nel-numbers-aerial-groups-how-to-choose.9224/

 

[pkb4809]

Hi Black Hole
Thanks for all that info

If you've got BBC1 on LCN751 (before tunefix) and no alternative BBC1 on LCN1, I don't know how to explain that

Well, yes, I've worked it out now. This is typical when the main-stream services are in a transition phase - the main multiplex (or "mux", the UHF channel which carries multiple digital services) is moving or has moved to a new channel number which is not in the traditional reception band for that transmitter.

OK, intriguing as that is (see below) ... is there anything I can do to put the BBC1 on LCN751 (which seems to have a perfectly good signal, for now at least) somewhere more easily accessible ... like on Channel 1 where as you correctly identify, there is currently nothing?


I followed the link (but I can't honestly say I've read ALL of it ) and moved on to the coverage checker which gives me the following information ...

... and ...

... and as far as I can see the (acceptable?) Aerial Groups Now are "T H, T H" and Aerial Groups After will be "A H, T H" ... now it's not clear to me how to read that, but if I read it as I could previously either use aerial type T or T (don't know why there are two "T H"s), then I presume I must have a "T" type aerial at the moment, in the Horizontal orientation ... it's been working fine, pointed at the Winter Hill transmitter for the last 18 years or so, after all (so does that follow?) ... and it would appear that after these changes they're making it would
be acceptable for me to use either a "A" or "T" type of aerial ... in which case I shouldn't need to change. Could you check my logic there, please?

Meanwhile, after many retunes my HDR-FOX hasn't been able to find anything on any channels below 37 or above 59 (so it's tuned to all the muxes in the above table except the "BBC A" mux (and "COM7 HD and COM8 HD" but I'm not sure what they are) ... the BBC1 it's found and put on LCN751 is reported as being received on Channel 50 ... was the "BBC A" mux being transmitted on a different channel to 32 until yesterday do you (or anyone else reading this) know?

Cheers, Phil

 

[pkb4809]

was the "BBC A" mux being transmitted on a different channel to 32 until yesterday

... I think I've now found the answer to that question ... the below from there (I'm not yet allowed to post links, so I'll call it ... bbc_dot_co_dot_uk/reception/work-warning/engineering-works/engineering-work-affecting-television-services-in-the-north-west-of ... and I'm sure you'll be able to follow ) ...

On the 20th February, viewers using the main Winter Hill transmitter will need to retune their equipment after the changes. There will be advanced warning and advice given locally before changes occur.

If, after you have retuned on the 20th February, you are having problems receiving BBC services at their normal EPG positions, then you should check to see if you can find our services in EPG positions 751 and above.
...
If you are only receiving BBC services at EPG position 751 and above, you need to manually retune to frequency 32 ...

I guess, I'll try that later when I'm back home
Cheers, Phil

 

[/df]

You ought to be receiving all the muxes fine with a group T aerial.

However https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Winter_Hill says that the BBCA Mux on C32 used to be on C50 until last autumn and disagrees with the current assignments of COM7 and COM8 shown in your coverage table, putting them below C35. In fact the table is obviously wrong because it has channels above C49 in use in the 2025 line. Is it possible that your aerial is actually group B or E? I believe that the scenario proposed by BH is what the BBC advice has in mind. Come April, goodbye C50/LCN751, and hello C32..C34 -- if your aerial can receive them.

Otherwise ...

There have been high winds recently. Are you confident about the orientation of your aerial?

Is an aerial amplifier involved?

Do you have another digital terrestrial receiver that you could compare with?

Does the routing of HDMI (etc) cables near the antenna cable make any difference?

And the preferred way to use tunefix to make BBC1 on LCN51 appear on LCN1 is to use Webif>Settings>Tunefix.

 

[pkb4809]

Hi df

Is it possible that your aerial is actually group B or E?

... it is possible, of course, and the more I find out about these different aerial types seems to be making it more and more possible ... but I'll have a go at manual tuning later when I get home, just in case, and see if that might help

There have been high winds recently. Are you confident about the orientation of your aerial?

Is an aerial amplifier involved?

... hmmm, the former shouldn't be a problem as the aerial is actually in the loft space ... which may be bringing it's own problems, I know, but this has never been a problem, until now ... and yes, due to the aerial being located in the loft space, there is an aerial amplifier involved ... and presumably that's another possible source of the problem

the preferred way to use tunefix to make BBC1 on LCN51 appear on LCN1 is to use Webif>Settings>Tunefix.

... thanks, I didn't find that yet, and the info in the wiki appeared to be suggesting I should use the file editor, but now I'll know where to look

Cheers, Phil

 

[Trev]

IMO the best idea would be to disable/uninstall tunefix until you can receive all the available channels on the correct LCNs and MPXs. Once you have done that, reinstall tunefix to shuffle any around or delete, and tunefix update to keep everything tickety boo.

 

[prpr]

do I need tunefix-update to implement the changes made using tunefix? ... nothing changed with both installed

Tunefix implements the changes required by tunefix-update, as well as handling its own configuration.

everything I could find in the Wiki and on the forum showed colons

You didn't find the tunefix thread then, and the post which details the configuration file: https://hummy.tv/forum/posts/97069
The Wiki is outdated.

what GUI?

The one found via the WebIf's Settings pages, like with most other packages you install.

Sorting out a mess is not the purpose of tunefix

Well, it kind of is. Given a reasonable start and a decent set of instructions, no buggering about by ignorant users, and a reboot, it does sort out a lot of mess.

is there anything I can do to put the BBC1 on LCN751

Install tunefix, review its configuration on the Settings page and reboot. Make sure you've removed that old, edited configuration file first.

after many retunes my HDR-FOX hasn't been able to find anything on any channels below 37 or above 59

There isn't anything above 59 (or mostly 56 now).
You need a new aerial. Yours is almost undoubtedly a C/D group. This is not going to receive anything apart from COM6, COM7 and COM8 from April 22 onwards. You need to act now.

I'll have a go at manual tuning later when I get home, just in case, and see if that might help

It won't and it's pointless trying. Get a new aerial.

 

[Trev]

Can someone please explain why anyone would want BBC1 on LCN751 rather than LCN1?

 

[prpr]

Nobody does. As has already been explained, it's just a parking place for the old mux. so that people who can't receive the new one aren't left without service until they can get their aerials replaced. It's happened in a few regions (mine included) where there's been a large frequency shift for the main PSB muxes.

 

[Code is a Hole]

Can someone please explain why anyone would want BBC1 on LCN751 rather than LCN1?

They may have a more regional BBC1, different language for example

 

[Black Hole]

Can someone please explain why anyone would want BBC1 on LCN751 rather than LCN1?

They may have a more regional BBC1, different language for example

No, that would be on 800+. Please refrain from posting uninformed speculation.

The correct answer is:

Nobody does. As has already been explained, it's just a parking place for the old mux. so that people who can't receive the new one aren't left without service until they can get their aerials replaced. It's happened in a few regions (mine included) where there's been a large frequency shift for the main PSB muxes.

The fundamental lesson is: if you are receiving BBC1 on LCN751 (or similar), and cannot find BBC1 on LCN1 even after a thorough retune, you need to update your aerial installation ASAP. LCN751 (etc) are only temporary to provide a transitional period, and will then be withdrawn (leaving you without a service unless you have updated).