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FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

Discussion in 'FOXSAT-HDR Freesat Recorder' started by greenarrow, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. greenarrow

    greenarrow New Member

    FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    Can a programme recorded on my Foxsat HDR box (for example a film (2 hours ish) in HD or SD) be copied to a Memory Stick and:
    1) loaded onto another Foxsat HDR box
    2) given to a friend for him to watch the film on his TV?

    Are there any restrictions on file size or format? Thanks
     
  2. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Re: FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    Yes and No :mrgreen:

    SD recorded programmes can be transferred with no restriction. HD programmes can be flagged by the broadcaster as encrypted and subject to copy restrictions. If flagged as encrypted the recording is copied to disc with an an encryption key unique to the hdr that recorded it. In that case only the hdr that recorded it can play it back even if copied to a usb drive. If flagged as copy restricted then it could be copy zero in which case the hdr won't allow copying to a usb drive at all. If copy once you can copy it once to a usb drive and replay it from there but only on the hdr that recorded it.

    Next complication, the foxsat-hdr can only use a usb drive formatted in FAT32 (or earlier) and the Linux format used internally by the box, EXT3. FAT32 has an inherent file size limit of 4GB which some longer films may exceed, HD recordings of longer than about an 1HR will exceed 4GB so EXT3 will be needed to archive to usb.

    Keeping up :D

    Any PC can format a usb drive in FAT32, formatting EXT3 is more complicated, the easiest way is to use a PC booted into the Linux operating system (a whole new thread).

    Recordings transferred to usb have a .ts (transport stream) container. SD recordings are compressed using mpeg2 and easily burnt to DVD because DVD uses the same mpeg2 compression in a slightly different container (mpeg2 programme stream .mpg) - another thread. Pretty well any PC can replay these using the free VLCplayer from videolan. HD recordings that are not encrypted use H264 compression (a variant of mpeg4) with the same .ts container. Of the free media players Splash Lite is the best I have found that will work to play these recordings on a PC with limited processing power.

    Until recently all Freesat recordings have been flagged as encrypted. Since November 2010 BBC1-HD transmissions have been transmitted with no encryption or copy protection flags (no idea why). As a result these recordings can be copied to a usb drive and play back on a PC. They can also be burnt to a PC with a Bluray burner or to a DVd blank in AVCHD format in the original HD quality (AVCHD on a DVD blank requires a bluray player to replay). As an example the Dr Who Xmas special fits on a single layer DVD blank in full HD in AVCHD format.

    All HD channels can be recorded without encryption using the hdr's non-freesat mode but require a manual start to the recording process.

    How to copy to usb

    Connect a usb FAT32 or EXT3 drive to either the front or rear usb port and wait for the usb drive connected message

    Press media/opt+ and choose file manager, a window will open with the intrernal hdd on the left hand side and the usb device on the right hand side. At this stage the RH pane shows the usd device in Linux format (eg SDA1 equivalent to windows C:\). Cursor right and press OK to open the device to the root folder (that's where the copies will go - pressing blue allows you to create subfolders). Cursor left to the internal hdd pane and then cursor to a file, the green copy button will now be active, press green to copy to the folder open on the RHS (pressing Yellow enters edit mode, in this mode by pressing OK on multiple files you can select multiple files to copy in one press of green)

    The file size depends on the bitrate used by the broadcaster 2Hrs should be OK for SD 2.5Hrs-3Hrs depending on channel may exceed the 4GB limit on SD channels. For HD it will be less for example the 4 Nativity 30m BBC1-HD broadcasts when topped an tailed and combined work out about 6GB, They fit on a dual layer DVD blank in full HD quality.
     
  3. greenarrow

    greenarrow New Member

    Re: FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    Many thanks for your response Graham- these questions never have a simple answer, do they :)

    So I can copy an SD recording to a USB memory stick (which must be formatted in FAT32 or earlier; how do they normally come?), provided that the recording does not exceed 4 Gbytes. (How do I find out how big the recording is?).

    For recordings bigger than 4 Gb, I would need to copy in EXT3, but Foxsat-hdr can only use a USB drive(stick?) formatted in FAT32 (or earlier).

    Copying to DVD could be a solution, except that a DVD reader would be required by the target box (eg another Foxsat HDR, TV, etc).

    Food for thought !
     
  4. MartinLiddle

    MartinLiddle Super Moderator Staff Member

    Re: FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    No it can use an EXT3 formatted USB external drive.
     
  5. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Re: FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    As Martin says EXT3 can also be used. If the file is larger than 4GB it will tell you, basically for SD programmes it will only be long films of over 2hrs that won't fit on FAT32. BBC1-HD recordings of up to about 1HR or so will also fit. For example the Dr Who Xmas Special is 3.22GB.

    USB sticks will normally be fat32 to retain compatibility. USB HDD drives may be formatted ntfs so to use with a hdr will need formatting. On it's own you can't format a FAT32 partition of greater than 32GB using just windows. There are loads of free utilities that will though.
     
  6. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Re: FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    Heads up, a very clever poster on AV forums (hope it's OK to mention another forum) has created ftp access to the Foxsat-hdr including a connected usb drive.

    Stupendous stuff.
     
  7. Re: FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    Regarding this - if PC & Foxsat were connected either by cable or 'electric plug' would this help in relation to iPlayer.
    I am in France and the only way I can access iPlayer (on my PC) is via a proxy server. So, I have two Ethernet ports on my PC, one for my Orange Livebox (ISP) and another which I would use to connect the Foxsat. As I need the proxy server running on my PC (for iPlayer), would the Foxsat access Iplayer via my PC, in through one Ethernet port, and then out through the other into the Livebox and the internet?

    Hope that is clear!
     
  8. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Re: FOXSAT-HDR transferring recorded programmes - how?

    It's clear, but I don't think that you can now access the hdr internal hdd drive directly using ftp will make any difference. What it does mean is that you can copy any size file directly to a NTFS drive over a network without using usb at all. (and very much more quickly). You really need an owner of a freesat box using a proxy serverfor vod services to help with this one.
     
  9. Hah worked out how to quote your post too ...new forum s/w taking time to used get to is it ;), anyhow this morning I used this modification (hack is a horrible word for a utility) thanks Graham , I have a problem using the attached USB, from FTP, but using Telnet I can copy from the Hummy disk to the USB anyway. Now I have root access to my Hummy I will probably bork it a few times but thanks again for the Heads Up and I will delve more into the little innards. Regards Dr DCM
     
  10. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Came across this

    http://astra2d.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fsip&action=display&thread=1600
     
  11. greenarrow

    greenarrow New Member

    Back to the original post in this thread, I have successfully copied a small recording (<4GB) from one HDR to another, using a USB memory key, but have found that the recording on the memory key cannot be played directly by plugging in to the USB ports on either of my TVs.

    Now to look at transfering larger recordings. Options seem to be
    a) Portable hard drive which is formatted NFTS, so how can this be achieved? Post above " USB HDD drives may be formatted ntfs so to use with a hdr will need formatting. On it's own you can't format a FAT32 partition of greater than 32GB using just windows. There are loads of free utilities that will though." So if a FAT32 partition of say 20 GB is created on the nfts disk, how can it be utilised for recordings bigger than 4Gb "FAT32 has an inherent file size limit of 4GB which some longer films may exceed" ? Sorry not to be grasping this very quickly.
    b) an LG Portable Super Multi Drive GP08 lite , though this seems to sold as a PC peripheral. Can I plug that in to the USB port, simply load a blank DVD (what type?) and copy the recording to the blank DVD and then do the reverse on the second HDR?
     
  12. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member


    You misunderstand a ntfs drive can't be used with the hdr it has to be FAT32 or EXT3 (for greater than 4GB). The easiest way to format a drive in EXT3 is to get a linux boot disc and boot a PC into linux to format the drive. The TV will have to cope with mpeg2 transport stream files to replay from usb (.ts), to replay these if they are not compatible the .ts file will have to be converted to a format the TV can use. vlcplayer will play them back on a PC. It's very unlikely that the hdr will work with a usb burner as it simply won't have the required drivers.

    HD recordings made in Freesat mode are encrypted and only play back on the hdr that recorded it so there is no point in trying to transfer these. Not many SD recordings will be longer than 4GB anyway.
     
  13. greenarrow

    greenarrow New Member

    Thanks for that
    I'm not into Linux I'm afraid; can I buy an HDD already formatted EXT3, do you know?
    What about option b) Can I plug a DVD drive into the USB and just record to a blank DVD, eg a HD 3 hour film, for example? Thanks
     
  14. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    No only a usb drive will work and you can't record directly to it, you have to record it and copy it afterwards unless you follow up the ftp options mentioned above.
     
  15. MartinLiddle

    MartinLiddle Super Moderator Staff Member

  16. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

  17. @greenarrow as Graham says you can use the ftp options ie ftp the file from 1 HDR to windows then from windows to the other HDR (assuming you have ethernet connections to each). It is also possible to format a USB stick/hdd from the Hummy too but then you get into the realms of using Telnet and Unix commands on the Hummy. I just tested this on mine and it works.
     
  18. Hello, I formatted an external drive in EXT3 for use with my Foxsat HDR not only to avoid the file size problem with FAT 32, but to try and get round some bizarre behaviour on the part of the Foxsat with FAT 32. After transferring a certain number of files, it would tell me "no more space available" even though there would be perhaps 50 GO left and even if I emptied the external drive, the Foxsat would still say it was full. I've had this happen on more than one drive, so it's clearly a bug with the Foxsat. So far, I've not had it happen with EXT3. I formatted in EX3 using "Easeus Partition Master" in windows, very simple to do and then "Explore 2-fs" to be able to see the files in Windows. I can copy the files into Windows with this, but can't do anything else. Unfortunately, Explore 2-fs only works with Windows XP at the moment, not on Windows 7.
     
  19. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    EXT2FSD allows EXT3 volumes to be read/write in Win 7 (and XP)

    http://www.ext2fsd.com/
     
  20. Thanks, I'll try that one!