HDR-2000T - stuttering end credits

[Samuel98]

Hey,

I recently purchased a Humax HDR-200T unit, and after recording a few shows I have noticed that the scrolling credits at the end of recordings - or text in general - are very strange, sort of stuttered.
For example, I have attached an image of what happens and how it looks on the credits of C4 HD Hollyoks episode.

Does anybody know why this is or how to fix it? It's almost as if the video is starved of bit-rate.

Thanks

 

[prpr]

That sort of thing is normal these days unfortunately.

 

[EEPhil]

It is not a 2000T specific problem. I've seen similar problems with content from the BBC's iPlayer viewed on my PC.

 

[Samuel98]

Great, so there is no way to fix it? Might as well return this unit then.

 

[Black Hole]

There's nothing wrong with the unit. Get another one (of whatever type) and you will have the same "problem".

It crosses my mind that you could be making it worse depending how the TV's de-interlacer is reacting with the Humaxes interlacer/de-interlacer. Start with giving the Humax a cold restart (power off at the wall). Then compare the result of using 1080i or 1080p as the video output format setting. See what settings the TV has to offer in that respect (I doubt it has any).

 

[Samuel98]

There's nothing wrong with the unit. Get another one (of whatever type) and you will have the same "problem".

It crosses my mind that you could be making it worse depending how the TV's de-interlacer is reacting with the Humaxes interlacer/de-interlacer. Start with giving the Humax a cold restart (power off at the wall). Then compare the result of using 1080i or 1080p as the video output format setting. See what settings the TV has to offer in that respect (I doubt it has any).

Interesting that you're saying it's not the unit because I also have the Panasonic Smart Recorder with Freeview Play (DMR-HWT150EB) and it does not occur with the recordings on that but the only problem is you can't get them from the device.

 

[MikeSh]

Interesting that you're saying it's not the unit because I also have the Panasonic Smart Recorder with Freeview Play (DMR-HWT150EB) and it does not occur with the recordings on that

Wouldn't it have been a good idea to have mentioned that originally? It's a rather huge piece of diagnostic information.

 

[Black Hole]

I can't see how this could be anything to do with the recorder, and on closer examination it doesn't look like interlace problems either. I strongly suspect it is entirely dependent on the source material - you would need to record identical programmes with both and compare the result to be able to say that one unit handles it better than another.

 

[Samuel98]

I can't see how this could be anything to do with the recorder, and on closer examination it doesn't look like interlace problems either. I strongly suspect it is entirely dependent on the source material - you would need to record identical programmes with both and compare the result to be able to say that one unit handles it better than another.

Well this is what the exact same episode - recording at the same time - appears like on the recording from the Panasonic unit.

 

[Luke]

Well this is what the exact same episode - recording at the same time - appears like on the recording from the Panasonic unit.

Is that a like for like comparison ?
Are you comparing the Panasonic and the Humax when they are both set to the same HDMI format I.e. both set to 1080i or both set to 1080p?

Have you tried Black Hole's suggestion of trying the other 1080 setting?

it doesn't look like interlace problems either.

No harm in trying a different setting though, and the credits for Hollyoaks do roll noticably faster than most.

 

[EEPhil]

Now that I've had a chance to have a proper look, here are my observations.
On the Hollyoaks Omnibus last night I could not see the problems that Samuel98 described, either on StdDef or HiDef. However, my set-up doesn't use HDMI or a HiDef screen. Therefore I transferred the programmes to my PC and loaded them into VideoReDo. I couldn't see any problems. Then I remembered that I have "deinterlace" ON in VRD. I switched it off. Hey Presto! Images like post #1 occurred. (This was for HiDef Hollyoaks and StdDef "two old farts on a canal boat"). To me, this implies Black Hole's initial thoughts in post #5 may be right. It is an interlacing problem somewhere.

 

[Black Hole]

on closer examination it doesn't look like interlace problems either.

I'm rolling back on that one. Here's what I think is happening:

The source material is probably interlaced, which means it is transmitted with a frame made up of two fields of alternating lines (all the odd numbered lines in one field, then all the even numbered lines in the next). This is done so that the data rate is halved but the overall resolution of the full frame remains the same - what is lost is temporal resolution.

With the rolling credits, the text has moved significantly in the interval between fields. Meanwhile, the de-interlacer in the receiver is trying to estimate what the image should be, and because the immediately adjacent lines are not comparable it comes up with a version that ghosts the texts.

So why does the Panasonic produce a better result than the Humax? There are several possibilities (and maybe more I haven't thought of):

1. The Panasonic has a better de-interlacing engine than the Humax.
   
   
2. The TV has a better de-interlacer than the Humax, and the Panasonic is feeding the TV at 1080i but the Humax is set for 1080p.
   
   
3. The source material is p (progressive), and the Panasonic is feeding the the TV at 1080p but the Humax is set for 1080i.
   
   
4. It may even be the scaler rather than the de-interlacer, and using 576i or 720i/p as the Humax output format (whatever matches the source material) fixes it - unlike the Humax, the Panasonic may be operating in an automatic mode where the HDMI link is run at the same setting as the source material and letting the TV's scaler/de-interlacer handle it.

Meanwhile, I have to say, I don't think this would bother me much. It is only an effect that will be seen on high-contrast sharp-edged objects moving rapidly on screen in a vertical direction - ie end credits.

 

[EEPhil]

I don't know how useful (or how accurate) the following information is...
I popped up the "info" banner on the HiDef Hollyoaks and the resolution was shown to be changing from 1080i to 1080p quite often. This may have been confused by the fact there was a sign language interpreter on screen. The end titles (no interpreter) 1080i.

I did notice, in the past, that when Channel 4 ran trails down the rhs of the screen the end credits on the lhs became very choppy. Not noticed that recently.

 

[Luke]

Does anybody know why this is or how to fix it?

...
So why does the Panasonic produce a better result than the Humax? There are several possibilities (and maybe more I haven't thought of):

1. The Panasonic has a better de-interlacing engine than the Humax.
   
   
2. The TV has a better de-interlacer than the Humax, and the Panasonic is feeding the TV at 1080i but the Humax is set for 1080p.
   
   
3. The source material is p (progressive), and the Panasonic is feeding the the TV at 1080p but the Humax is set for 1080i.
   
   
4. It may even be the scaler rather than the de-interlacer, and using 576i or 720i/p as the Humax output format (whatever matches the source material) fixes it - unlike the Humax, the Panasonic may be operating in an automatic mode where the HDMI link is run at the same setting as the source material and letting the TV's scaler/de-interlacer handle it.

5. The Panasonic is feeding the TV at 1080i but the Humax is set for 1080p and the TV is one of those old TVs, or is similar to one of those old TVs, that was not coded correctly for 1080i.

Of course it would be very illuminating if Samuel98 stated which what the out put for the Panasonic and the Humax was set to and what was the model of the TV. With out that this thread was IMHO always academic even before post #2.

 

[Trev]

or is similar to one of those old TVs, that was not coded correctly for 1080i.

Is it a HD ready set @720p/i that is being fed with 1080?