HDR FOX T2 - does the tuner fall over at low temperatures?

Black Hole said:
I have not personally experienced it, but it has been reported that the signals in the HDMI lead can create interference on the RF lead (the frequencies are similar). This is a situation that will only occur while the Humax is actively feeding video information to the TV. To rule it out, disconnect the HDMI and try SCART temporarily.
Click to expand...

In that case, it doesn't seem likely. As I said in my previous post, the problem first manifested itself on some recordings made while we were away from home, with the TV firmly switched off.So the HDMI cable certainly wouldn't have been actively doing anything at the time.
 
Can you fit a splitter and run separate cables to your Humax and to your TV from the same wall-plate?

You can then isolate the TV aerial input from Humax's and can switch the video between the two to see if the problem remains.

Can you try a Scart cable to eliminate HDMI issues?

Martin
 
MartinOnline said:
Can you fit a splitter and run separate cables to your Humax and to your TV from the same wall-plate?

You can then isolate the TV aerial input from Humax's and can switch the video between the two to see if the problem remains.

Can you try a Scart cable to eliminate HDMI issues?

Martin
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that a passive splitter would be a good idea, since it would reduce the signal level. As a result of a suggestion made in another forum, I have removed the RF between the Humax and the TV - with no effect whatsoever. It means, of course, that I can no longer use the TV's tuner as a reference. However, I do have another TV point on the other side of the room - connected to a different output on the distribution amp. I COULD connect the TV to that.

I COULD try a SCART cable instead of HDMI - but that wouldn't be a satisfactory permanent solution because I'd not get any HD. What HDMI issues do you have in mind?

WT
 
Hi,

It is known that the RF produced by some HDMI cables can badly affect the input signal such that (especially) the HD MUX or another MUX can be prevented from being received completely or cause break-up.

When this is the case users have found that removing the HDMI temporarily will confirm if this is the issue (HD can be tuned or break-up disappears) - The solution is to use a different HDMI cable or simply route RF and HDMI cables differently. A cheap HDMI is just as likely to help as any expensive cable from most users experiences.

Pete
 
Watt Tyler said:
I'm not sure that a passive splitter would be a good idea, since it would reduce the signal level.
Click to expand...
So what? You've either got enough signal at the end of the downlead or you haven't. If you haven't, you should be using a masthead amplifier at the top.

As a result of a suggestion made in another forum, I have removed the RF between the Humax and the TV - with no effect whatsoever. It means, of course, that I can no longer use the TV's tuner as a reference. However, I do have another TV point on the other side of the room - connected to a different output on the distribution amp. I COULD connect the TV to that.
Click to expand...
I would be looking at the DA as the source of the problem before anything else. Can you try the Humax on the feed in to the DA and see what it reports for strength/quality on all the muxes?
How much gain does this DA claim to have anyway? Something hideous like 25dB?
 
Watt Tyler said:
UPDATE. After a fair bit of persuasion, Humax have replaced my HDR-FOX-T2. Initially they said it sounded like interference from other transmitters, and required me to do a factory reset and manual re-tune to make sure there no duplicate channels. I did all that, and it made no difference, so they replaced it.

HOWEVER, the new one is exactly the same - or maybe even worse! So where do I go from here?

[Just a reminder for anyone who has forgotten what this thread is about(!) The picture on my HDR-FOX-T2 keeps breaking up, sometimes to the point of being unwatchable. When this happens, the signal strength and quality bars on the i-plate (and the Signal Detection menu) indicate reasonable strength but dire quality. BUT, if I view the same channel using the TV's tuner (same MUX, same frequency, with the Humax's RF-out connected to the TV's aerial-in), the picture is ok, and the TV reports the quality as being "excellent".]

Is it possible for there to be some sort of external interference which would upset the Humax's tuners but not the TV's? The problem first occurred not long after I had connected a power-line ethernet adapter, so I have recently disconnected that just in case it was upsetting the Humax's tuner - but that hasn't made a blind bit of difference. Any other ideas?

WT
Click to expand...

The Humax has very sensitive tuners, you may be in fact delivering too strong a signal driving the lead amplifier into extreme distortion. Try a plug in attenuator into the box rf input.

eg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TV-Aerial...148&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&sd=221181804245&
 
WT,

I realise that you are frustrated with your situation but it does appear to me that you respond to suggestions with very forthright statements and questions.

If I may speak for the contributers, we are not on the spot and are reliant on your information to advise you what options are open to you, for you to solve the problem.

You have a replacement box from Humax. That box may, or may not, have the same fault, as before, and even may have additional faults, so elimination of all known problem areas is again on the cards.

You may have a situation/fault that is new and thus experimentation is required. Like trying another amplifier output.

In my case, my suggestion of the passive splitter was to examine concurrently the output from the distribution amplifier and also have, cheaply, the effect of reducing the signal level to part-way achieve what Graham has suggested.

Using the Scart output would show whether the new Humax HDMI output was causing problems.

Martin
 
It should at least be possible to rule out too strong a signal by observing the signal level indicators for a few minutes.
 
Black Hole said:
It should at least be possible to rule out too strong a signal by observing the signal level indicators for a few minutes.
Click to expand...

It doesn't work, if the amp is overloaded the indicated signal level can actually fall. It's a false reading. The only real clue is the quality reading.

Simple example if you have a variable gain amp capable of driving the tuner front end into clipping. Display the signal strength and quality as you turn up the gain. Initially the quality will likely increase with signal. You will then reach a point where increasing the gain still causes the signal level to increase but the quality falls. Eventually the indicated signal will fluctuate wildly with zero indicated quality.
 
OK, I should have made it clear I meant signal level AND quality indicators. They are on screen at the same time, after all.
 
petrev said:
Hi,

It is known that the RF produced by some HDMI cables can badly affect the input signal such that (especially) the HD MUX or another MUX can be prevented from being received completely or cause break-up.

When this is the case users have found that removing the HDMI temporarily will confirm if this is the issue (HD can be tuned or break-up disappears) - The solution is to use a different HDMI cable or simply route RF and HDMI cables differently. A cheap HDMI is just as likely to help as any expensive cable from most users experiences.

Pete
Click to expand...

OK, it's on my list of things to try. Would the HDMI cable radiate RF when the TV isn't on? I ask because the breakup problem first occured on recordings made while we were away from home, with the TV firmly off.

The HDMI cable which I'm using is the one supplied by Humax. FWIW, I'm not having any problems with HD - the HD mux is fine - it's the COM5 and COM6 muxes which are problematical.

WT
 
No, it shouldn't, but the point that has been raised is that the original Humax has been exchanged for another, and it is not absolutely certain the problem you are having now is the same problem you had before. The thrust of the above posts is to encourage you to start fault-finding from the beginning and report the results, without making assumptions and omitting steps.

If COM5 and COM6 are weaker, they might be more susceptible to RF interference. If they are stronger, they might be too strong.
 
MartinOnline said:
WT,

I realise that you are frustrated with your situation but it does appear to me that you respond to suggestions with very forthright statements and questions.

If I may speak for the contributers, we are not on the spot and are reliant on your information to advise you what options are open to you, for you to solve the problem.

You have a replacement box from Humax. That box may, or may not, have the same fault, as before, and even may have additional faults, so elimination of all known problem areas is again on the cards.

You may have a situation/fault that is new and thus experimentation is required. Like trying another amplifier output.

In my case, my suggestion of the passive splitter was to examine concurrently the output from the distribution amplifier and also have, cheaply, the effect of reducing the signal level to part-way achieve what Graham has suggested.

Using the Scart output would show whether the new Humax HDMI output was causing problems.

Martin
Click to expand...

Can I say that I very much appreciate all the responses which people are making to my posts. I apologise if I sometimes appear to dismiss helpful suggestions out of hand - that it not my intention. But I am trying to home in on those things which seem most likely to have an effect.

Things which are currently on my list to try are:
* Connecting the Humax and TV with a SCART cable rather than HDMI
* By-passing the distribution amp
* Using an alternative signal amplifier and/or attenuator

I would be surprised if I have too much signal. I'm pretty much on the fringe of the Sutton Coldfield coverage area, and both TV and Humax are showing a signal strength of around 50% (whatever that means!)

I'm still puzzled by the fact that the problem affects only the Humax and not the TV - and started happening fairly suddenly about 4 months ago. So something must have changed - but what?

WT
 
Strange ????

Would not have thought the HDMI would be live, in a disruptive way, if the TV was Off !?!

Worth a test with the HDMI disconnected from the HDR and a few test recordings made.

Check your signals are coming from the correct best transmitter if you can using the DigitalUK site
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/index/dummy/NA/yes

You can try moving the HDMI cable around and watching the Quality readings for the affected MUX ?

This is a guide with some more links and tips (just read HDR for DS)
http://digitalstream.wikkii.com/wiki/I_am_having_reception_issues!_What_can_I_do?

Pete
 
Black Hole said:
No, it shouldn't, but the point that has been raised is that the original Humax has been exchanged for another, and it is not absolutely certain the problem you are having now is the same problem you had before. The thrust of the above posts is to encourage you to start fault-finding from the beginning and report the results, without making assumptions and omitting steps.

If COM5 and COM6 are weaker, they might be more susceptible to RF interference. If they are stronger, they might be too strong.
Click to expand...

I take your point, but the SYMPTOMS are exactly the same - and nothing changed by swapping one box for another - which rather suggests that the root cause is external. But finding what might have changed about four months ago - to start upsetting the Humax without affecting the TV ain't going to be too easy!
 
Watt Tyler said:
I would be surprised if I have too much signal. I'm pretty much on the fringe of the Sutton Coldfield coverage area, and both TV and Humax are showing a signal strength of around 50% (whatever that means!)


WT
Click to expand...

So would I, you would only get the problem if you were within a mile or two. Have you checked the dtg website for an alternative transmitter ?. South of Birmingham the SFN based on Bromsgrove/Lark Stoke (vertical polarised) is pretty good and in some areas Ridge Hill is usable.
 
petrev said:
Strange ????

Would not have thought the HDMI would be live, in a disruptive way, if the TV was Off !?!

Worth a test with the HDMI disconnected from the HDR and a few test recordings made.

Check your signals are coming from the correct best transmitter if you can using the DigitalUK site
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/index/dummy/NA/yes

You can try moving the HDMI cable around and watching the Quality readings for the affected MUX ?

This is a guide with some more links and tips (just read HDR for DS)
http://digitalstream.wikkii.com/wiki/I_am_having_reception_issues!_What_can_I_do?

Pete
Click to expand...
One of the things I'm planning to do (when I can interrupt SWMBO's viewing!) is to swap the HDMI lead for a SCART. Then I can see immediately whether there's any change in signal quality.

Both the TV and the Humax are manually tuned to the muxes on Sutton Coldfield - and there are no 'strays' in the 800's.

I have tried moving ther HDMI cable around, and couldn't detect any difference.

Thanks for the link - but it ain't currently working - I'm getting a message saying:
DigitalStreamPVR has a problem


WT
 
grahamlthompson said:
It doesn't work, if the amp is overloaded the indicated signal level can actually fall. It's a false reading. The only real clue is the quality reading.

Simple example if you have a variable gain amp capable of driving the tuner front end into clipping. Display the signal strength and quality as you turn up the gain. Initially the quality will likely increase with signal. You will then reach a point where increasing the gain still causes the signal level to increase but the quality falls. Eventually the indicated signal will fluctuate wildly with zero indicated quality.
Click to expand...

I have't got a variable gain amplifier, but I have got a 12dB amp and a variable attenuator, so I can play about with those to see whether they make any difference.

WT
 
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