HDR FOX T2 - does the tuner fall over at low temperatures?

[moosey]

To check whether it is the Humax or not, why not just disconnect it and store it overnight in a cool, dry place (cupboard, loft, boot of car, etc). Then connect it up the next day and see if it works straight away. Obviously, you will need to find somewhere the right temperature for this test - too warm and it won't replicate your cool temperatures when you are away, and too cold and you risk condensation when you bring it into a warm room.

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Watt Tyler]

We've been away for a few days twice recently, and left the T2 to record some programmes while we were away. When we're not here, the house is unheated - except that the frost stat should turn the heating on to prevent the temperature falling below 10 degrees.

On both occasions, some of the recordings have had the pictures broken up and discontinuities in the sound - like you get with insufficient signal - in some cases making them unwatchable. But it works ok when we're here, and the house is warm. The spec says it should work down to zero degrees. Are there any known temperature sentitivity issues? Is it likely to help if I leave it ON rather than on Standby when we're away in the winter, so that it keeps itself warm to some extent?

TIA.

WT

Many thanks to everyone who has replied.

Meanwhile, the gateposts seem to have moved a bit. We're now getting more and more instances of picture breakup while we are in residence, with the house at normal temperatures. When this happens, if use the connected TV's own tuner rather than that of the Humax, the picture is invariably OK - suggesting that the T2's tuner has lost sensitivity. Is this possible/likely? Although we are on the fringe of the Sutton Coldfiled catchment area, the post-DSO signal has been perfectly ok until recently. Under normal circumstances, the T2 signal strength/quality indicator shows 4 bars for strength and a full house of bars for quality. I assume that it should work ok with that signal?

WT

 

[Ezra Pound]

You are probably better off checking the signal strength and Quility of the signal using Menu >> Settings >> System >> Signal Detection >> Channel as it will give a more accurate display in real time e.g. it will show if it is changing. It would help if you stated whether you get break-up of the picture when watching live, watching a recording or both.

 

[Watt Tyler]

You are probably better off checking the signal strength and Quility of the signal using Menu >> Settings >> System >> Signal Detection >> Channel as it will give a more accurate display in real time e.g. it will show if it is changing. It would help if you stated whether you get break-up of the picture when watching live, watching a recording or both.

Thanks. I'll try the menu route, and report back. The recent problems have been while watching live.

WT

 

[Watt Tyler]

Thanks. I'll try the menu route, and report back. The recent problems have been while watching live.

WT

OK, a bit more meat on the bones . . .
The problem tends to occur in the early evening, and then sorts itself out by bedtime. It seems to be confined to the COM muxes - the PSB muxes seem to be ok.
On the PSB muxes, Signal Detection shows a strength of about 50 to 55% and a quality of a rock solid 100%.
On the COM muxes, the strength is about 45 to 50% and the quality 'trombones' between 50 and 100%. It seems to be this variable quality which is linked to picture breakup. [The Humax manual seems to suggest that a strength of over 30% and a quality of over 70% is ok].

HOWEVER, when the picture is breaking up - even to the point of being unwatchable - if I switch to the TV's own tuner, the picture is perfectly ok. My Philips TV indicates (by means of a horizontal bar) that the strength is around 60% (compared with Humax's 45-50%) and the quality is reported as being "Excellent". The TV is getting its aerial signal daisy-chained from the Humax, so they're both getting the same feed - but the Philips says it's ok and the Humax says it's crap!

I suppose that there might be some atmospheric conditions which degrade the signal a bit in the early evening, and this seems to affect the quality (which I assume to mean signal to noise ratio) but not the strength. If so, I don't understand why the T2 reacts badly to this but the Philips TV doesn't. Also, I don't understand why it only affects the COM muxes. Is there something different about the way they are transmitted? It shouldn't be down to aerial response at different frequencies because the channels are interwoven. [The PSBs are on 40(HD) 43 and 46 and the COMs are on 39, 42 and 45].

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what's going on? Should I be asking Humax to replace my T2 under warranty (it's only 16 months old)?

WT

 

[Black Hole]

Signal strength will depend on what each manufacturer decides to set as a 100% baseline, and there is a pass-through amplifier in the Humax so you can't compare that. Quality is not directly S/N, it is the quality of the digital payload.

I can't think of a reason a hardware fault in the Humax would discriminate against particular multiplexes.

 

[Watt Tyler]

Signal strength will depend on what each manufacturer decides to set as a 100% baseline, and there is a pass-through amplifier in the Humax so you can't compare that. Quality is not directly S/N, it is the quality of the digital payload.

I can't think of a reason a hardware fault in the Humax would discriminate against particular multiplexes.

Are you saying that the Humax delivers a BETTER signal out of it's daisy-chain port than it uses for its own internal purposes? I suppost that I should perhaps unplug the aerial lead from the Humax and plug it into the TV in order to do a direct comparison. But I doubt whether it make any difference. Since there seems to be enough signal strength, I don't see how an amplifier would improve the quality. If it DOES, should I use an amplifier BEFORE the Humax?

WT

 

[Black Hole]

No harm in seeing what happens with the TV directly on the aerial feed, but like you I suspect it will make no difference. Strengths around the 50% mark seem to be pretty OK by all reports, so you should not need an amp. Strengths around 100% are too much and degrade the quality substantially.

With the problem persisting the way it is, even though there seems to be no justification, it is probably worth approaching Humax.

 

[danco]

Just an additional data point. I have been having similar issues lately.

My Humax is in a warm room. My TV is an old analogue one, so no point of comparison. I never watch live, the problem was noticed when watching recordings. I live in London, and have a good aerial fitted on the roof.

I have never had the problem in periods of heavy rain. It seems to have started last Friday, when we had the first snow fall.

 

[Watt Tyler]

With the problem persisting the way it is, even though there seems to be no justification, it is probably worth approaching Humax.

Yes, I can't see that it do any harm! I'll try to get some screen shots when it's playing up, by way of evidence. I'm going to be away a lot, on and off, during the next couple of weeks, but will take it up again when I'm back for a bit.

WT

 

[Watt Tyler]

Just an additional data point. I have been having similar issues lately.

My Humax is in a warm room. My TV is an old analogue one, so no point of comparison. I never watch live, the problem was noticed when watching recordings. I live in London, and have a good aerial fitted on the roof.

I have never had the problem in periods of heavy rain. It seems to have started last Friday, when we had the first snow fall.

Interesting, but my problems started long before it snowed, and the snow doesn't seem to have made them any worse.

WT

 

[Ezra Pound]

Are you saying that the Humax delivers a BETTER signal out of it's daisy-chain port than it uses for its own internal purposes?

You can't compare signal strengths from different pieces of equipment because they are not calibrated to anything, it may be that your TV will see 100% signal strength as say 50 uV/m and the Humax may see 100% signal strength as 100uV/m so a signal of say 25 uV/m will be displayed as 50% on the TV and 25% on the Humax

 

[Watt Tyler]

You can't compare signal strengths from different pieces of equipment because they are not calibrated to anything, it may be that your TV will see 100% signal strength as say 50 uV/m and the Humax may see 100% signal strength as 100uV/m so a signal of say 25 uV/m will be displayed as 50% on the TV and 25% on the Humax

Fair enough - but I was responding to a post which said that I couldn't compare the daisy-chained TV's signal strength with that of the HDR-T2 because of the intermediate amplifier. I wonder what would happen if I daisy chained a second HDR-T2 rather than a TV. Would both T2's then report the same signal strength/quality?

WT

 

[Black Hole]

My post implied both, actually.

 

[Watt Tyler]

Yes, I can't see that it do any harm! I'll try to get some screen shots when it's playing up, by way of evidence. I'm going to be away a lot, on and off, during the next couple of weeks, but will take it up again when I'm back for a bit.

WT

UPDATE. After a fair bit of persuasion, Humax have replaced my HDR-FOX-T2. Initially they said it sounded like interference from other transmitters, and required me to do a factory reset and manual re-tune to make sure there no duplicate channels. I did all that, and it made no difference, so they replaced it.

HOWEVER, the new one is exactly the same - or maybe even worse! So where do I go from here?

[Just a reminder for anyone who has forgotten what this thread is about(!) The picture on my HDR-FOX-T2 keeps breaking up, sometimes to the point of being unwatchable. When this happens, the signal strength and quality bars on the i-plate (and the Signal Detection menu) indicate reasonable strength but dire quality. BUT, if I view the same channel using the TV's tuner (same MUX, same frequency, with the Humax's RF-out connected to the TV's aerial-in), the picture is ok, and the TV reports the quality as being "excellent".]

Is it possible for there to be some sort of external interference which would upset the Humax's tuners but not the TV's? The problem first occurred not long after I had connected a power-line ethernet adapter, so I have recently disconnected that just in case it was upsetting the Humax's tuner - but that hasn't made a blind bit of difference. Any other ideas?

WT

 

[MartinLiddle]

HOWEVER, the new one is exactly the same - or maybe even worse! So where do I go from here?

Odd. What transmitter and do you have any sort of amplifier in the feed from the aerial ?

 

[HarveyB]

Have you tried repositioning the Humax a few feet away from its current location. Just to eliminate very local interference from electrical items (including possibly the TV).

 

[Black Hole]

I have not personally experienced it, but it has been reported that the signals in the HDMI lead can create interference on the RF lead (the frequencies are similar). This is a situation that will only occur while the Humax is actively feeding video information to the TV. To rule it out, disconnect the HDMI and try SCART temporarily.

 

[Watt Tyler]

Odd. What transmitter and do you have any sort of amplifier in the feed from the aerial ?

It's Sutton Coldfield. A fairly substantial Group B aerial on the chimney feeds a distribution amplifier in a first floor bedroom/office. One of the outputs from that goes to the Humax and TV in the lounge below.

 

[Watt Tyler]

Have you tried repositioning the Humax a few feet away from its current location. Just to eliminate very local interference from electrical items (including possibly the TV).

No. How likely is that? The problem first manifested itself on some recordings made while we were away from home, with the TV firmly switched off.