Looking for the thread that describes what I can expect from DLNA between two HDR-Fox T2

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aekostas

Member
Thanks for the suggestion. If one spells "root" with a 'b', as in "boot" (🤣), then the following sequence indeed sets Media to point to the USB drive next time it is pressed:

DELAY30 MEDIA (0x6f) BLUE (0x1e) RIGHT (0x14) OK (0x13) DELAY5 DOWN (0x15) OK (0x13) DELAY5 EXIT (0x16)

I believe that there is a race condition, as the initial delay is needed (I am not going to play with numbers other than to increase it if I have to, empirically). But I am sorted in the first instance; thanks!
 

MymsMan

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The speed of the Humax in responding to the remote control seems to be very variable from day to day for no obvious reason which is one of the biggest obstacles to the use of macros.
 

/df

Active Member
Presumably there is some I/O (I2C?) handling involved in passing commands from the front panel to the STB program, which might think it has other things to do, maybe DLNA indexing.
 
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aekostas

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I am having network throughput problems that I am trying to debug. If I connect the two HDRs directly using a network cable, should they be exhibiting the same functionality as if connected to the same network?

Thanks!
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
No, or at least I don't think so

Try it if you like, you will need to manually set up suitable IP addresses and netmasks.

Why not just tell us what the problem is? Chances are we already know the answer.
 
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aekostas

Member
Thanks. I don’t yet have all the info. They are connected to my router through Comtrend adapters. Trying to figure out what behaviour to report other than “throughput problems”.
 
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aekostas

Member
I think they are not HomePlug, a different standard, but same idea. The other day we watched something HD perfectly until my son started playing on the Xbox (same network, WiFi). While he was downloading an update, perfect; when he started playing, unwatchable.

The problem being that today the same recording was unwatchable, even with the Xbox off, so I had no idea what to report. I checked some hummy.tv threads this am, I am none the wiser.

What is the basis of the problem with HomePlug? What networking works? Direct cable to the router is not possible, even if I wanted, there are no hatches to lay the cable.
 

MymsMan

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If I connect the two HDRs directly using a network cable, should they be exhibiting the same functionality as if connected to the same network?
When you connect two machines together you should use a crossover cable but most modern PCs can cope with a normal network cable, I don't know if humax-humax connections would require a crossover or not , I am not sure what network settings would be required probably different static ip addresses rather than DHCP
Direct cable to the router is not possible,
I was a bit confused by the apparent contradiction in these statement,
I assume you mean the two humaxes are close enough to be direct connected to each other but both are too far from router to be cable connected.

One thought is do you have an old spare router/ethernet switch?
If you did you could connect both of the of the humaxes to the spare router and connect it to comtrend adapter.
That way you would have the benefit of cable connections between the humaxes but still have connection to the rest of the network and internet plus a wifi signal extender
 
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aekostas

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Thanks for the reply.

Indeed it’s possible to connect the two devices directly as a test, but not as a permanent solution, even if it worked. Similarly, I will try your suggestion to connect them to the same switch as a test, but it doesn’t resolve the problem, as I cannot route the cable permanently.

I swapped the two boxes about so we could watch what we wanted, but it’s not ideal, so any suggestions are welcome. Eg would it help if the source or the destination was on wireless (wireless doesn’t reach one of the rooms, so one powerline adapter will always be in play). I would try it, but have no suitable wifi adapter. Similarly, the Comtrend are marketed at 200 mbps, but there are faster ones now (which are incompatible with Comtrend, so I can’t readily buy two to try. Or could a switch not connected to the internet feed a powerline-connected, separate network just for the two of them to talk, while the main router feeds the other powerline network? So many options, but trial and error costs...).
 

MymsMan

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If your setup was working before the Xbox incident try getting it working again by reboting the router and the comtrend adapters before trying anything more complex.
Wifi is not likely to improve things much especially if signal is at all weak
 
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aekostas

Member
Thanks. But do we understand the bottleneck? Black Hole was not surprised I was having issues. The Comtrends were routinely employed by BT to distribute HDTV. Is it all to do with the variable ability of the electrical network to transport data? Or is the Humax throughput borderline for what I am trying to do?
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I don't know if humax-humax connections would require a crossover or not
They do not.

different static ip addresses
Of course.

What is the basis of the problem with HomePlug?
The data rates they advertise are the theoretical maximum under ideal circumstances. Mostly, circumstances are far from ideal, and they have to drive a signal through against cable losses and a great deal of noise. My actual point-to-point data rate is something like 3Mbps... using units implied by advertising as 200Mbps. Switching to "500" is not likely to improve anything.

3Mbps can just about sustain HiDef streaming, so long as there are no glitches on top. I generally get break-up, and confine myself to StDef if I know I will want to stream it via HomePlug.

Wired will solve your problems, and I strongly advise anyone to consider powerline as a temporary solution only. "Can't" usually means "difficult but not impossible". WiFi should also be considered temporary unless the end point is mobile.

However, if you are having trouble with powerline and want to opt for an easier but sub-optimal solution, extend your WiFi network so you no longer have not-spots. The best way to do that is cable another WiFi router (with the router functions turned off) and set it up to have the same SSID and password but on a different channel. That way you can have a seamless operation.

Note that you must use a WiFi dongle based on RT3070.

I think they are not HomePlug, a different standard, but same idea.
If you say so. Different standard or not, they have the same problems to face. Powerline data transmission is increasing your RF noise floor, whatever standard it uses.
 
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aekostas

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Thanks for the detailed answer, Black Hole. I am not sure it is relevant, but my router assigns a static IP to each of my two Humax boxes.

Just for my understanding, through what means do you measure throughput between your powerlines?

Also, is there any reason why one Humax on strong WiFi, one on powerline adapter may perform better than both on powerline adapter?

(Just for my understanding, how do the packets get routed between the two powerline adapters involved in Humax-Humax streaming, do they go via the router (thus via the single powerline adapter that connects to the router)?)
 

prpr

Well-Known Member
my router assigns a static IP
That's a contradiction in terms. Static addresses are not assigned by another device. They are assigned by a human directly into the target device.
Perhaps you were thinking of "sticky address".
how do the packets get routed between the two powerline adapters involved in Humax-Humax streaming, do they go via the router (thus via the single powerline adapter that connects to the router)?
What's the topology? You've implied you've got 3 of these things. I believe they are supposed to work in pairs, but I have never used them as I despise them.
 

Black Hole

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Just for my understanding, through what means do you measure throughput between your powerlines?
Devolo Dashboard gives me point-to-point readings. Also experience of what sustained data rate is required to support HiDef streaming (eg iPlayer, when by broadband tops out at 3Mbps anyway!).

my router assigns a static IP to each of my two Humax boxes.
As above, no it doesn't. If you have the HDR-FOX networking on default settings, it requires the router to send it settings each boot (DHCP). No router will result in a default IP address being set (identical on all HDR-FOXes). Configuring IP Address (click)

What's the topology? You've implied you've got 3 of these things. I believe they are supposed to work in pairs
Presuming they are all much of a likeness, the HomePlugs set up a peer-to-peer network between themselves (through the mains cabling), and have the properties of a distributed switch. Communications local to the "switch" do not require a connection to the router (and quite often the Devolo connected to my router bombs out, but the Humii can still see each other regardless).

Also, is there any reason why one Humax on strong WiFi, one on powerline adapter may perform better than both on powerline adapter?
That very much depends. If you have one HDR operating on WiFi (I do, as an experiment), it has a direct (wireless) connection to the router which should be pretty fast compared with powerline, so if the powerline between the other HDR and the router is solid, and the WiFi is replacing a slow link, that could be better. However, the powerline is still the weaker link, and with both HDRs on powerline, they can talk to each other directly without going through the router all the time (the router is still involved with handing out IP addresses if you use DHCP, which I do not recommend with powerline anyway).
 
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aekostas

Member
Devolo Dashboard gives me point-to-point readings. Also experience of what sustained data rate is required to support HiDef streaming (eg iPlayer, when by broadband tops out at 3Mbps anyway!).
Ok, I will look into it in a bit more detail (need to find the IPs of each Comtrend). I checked the dashboard of the one connected to the router (which is unambiguous in my head) and reported Tx is between 32 and 128Mbps for the five Comtrends that is sees; Rx between 22 and 113. I will experiment while putting them under load later and report back.
As above, no it doesn't. If you have the HDR-FOX networking on default settings, it requires the router to send it settings each boot (DHCP). No router will result in a default IP address being set (identical on all HDR-FOXes). Configuring IP Address (click)
Sorry for the confusion, what I should have written is that I have configured my router to give each of my Humax boxes its own, static IP.
Presuming they are all much of a likeness, the HomePlugs set up a peer-to-peer network between themselves (through the mains cabling), and have the properties of a distributed switch. Communications local to the "switch" do not require a connection to the router (and quite often the Devolo connected to my router bombs out, but the Humii can still see each other regardless).
Ok, so that is not likely my issue.
That very much depends. If you have one HDR operating on WiFi (I do, as an experiment), it has a direct (wireless) connection to the router which should be pretty fast compared with powerline, so if the powerline between the other HDR and the router is solid, and the WiFi is replacing a slow link, that could be better. However, the powerline is still the weaker link, and with both HDRs on powerline, they can talk to each other directly without going through the router all the time (the router is still involved with handing out IP addresses if you use DHCP, which I do not recommend with powerline anyway).
Thanks again. I have configured the powerlines (at their respective interfaces, not at the router) to have a static IP.
 

Black Hole

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Sorry for the confusion, what I should have written is that I have configured my router to give each of my Humax boxes its own, static IP.
That is still not the same as a static IP address, unless you have also configured the HDRs to "manual". Have you read my notes about DHCP over powerline? If the adapter goes into "sleep mode", there is a risk it won't wake up in time to convey the DHCP request at HDR boot.
 

MymsMan

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Also, is there any reason why one Humax on strong WiFi, one on powerline adapter may perform better than both on powerline adapter?

How long is your piece of string?
Both WiFI and powerline adapters can perform well and reach their advertised speeds in ideal circumstances but the average house is far from ideal and which will perform better is impossible to predict since it depends on the specific geography of your house and both are subject to external interference.

I only have a single humax but I do tend to watch some programmes (mainly BBC news recorded in SD but played at 2X speed) on my laptop in my office using a wireless connection. Usually this is fine but sometimes I get sound break ups , often this can be resolved by pausing play for a while to allow the buffers to build up but some times I have to give up and download the video rather than streaming it.

During the summer I use a pair of D-link power line adapters to run a wifi extender so that I can get a wireless signal in the garden, the power-line adapters only ever show an orange light indicating a marginal signal, probably because the two sockets are on separate ring mains but despite this the speed is usually good enough for SD video streaming (I rarely record in HD)

If you have two Humaxes the best way to solve problems with streaming HD video is to avoid the need to stream HD video using a combination of the following:
  • Record programmes on both machines
  • Shrink recordings (can save 10-20% of file size)
  • Plan ahead and use webif to copy recordings to the other machine beforehand
  • Record in SD where definition doesn't matter.
  • Pause play back to allow buffers to fill
 
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aekostas

Member
That is still not the same as a static IP address, unless you have also configured the HDRs to "manual". Have you read my notes about DHCP over powerline? If the adapter goes into "sleep mode", there is a risk it won't wake up in time to convey the DHCP request at HDR boot.
Thanks. My adapters have the "Power Control" setting disabled, but I fixed the DHCP on the Humii (I like that :)) too.
  • Shrink recordings (can save 10-20% of file size)
Does this require less bandwidth?
  • Pause play back to allow buffers to fill
Can I control the size of the buffers?

I checked the reported statistics. While streaming HD, I get over 100Mbps, it reports, and still it stutters unacceptably. I am not sure what is going on, esp. considering Black Hole's 3 Mbps figure above.
 
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