Looking for the thread that describes what I can expect from DLNA between two HDR-Fox T2

bottletop

Member
I checked the reported statistics. While streaming HD, I get over 100Mbps, it reports, and still it stutters unacceptably. I am not sure what is going on, esp. considering Black Hole's 3 Mbps figure above.
That sounds odd, as I can playback HD recordings without issue from one HDR to a second HDR when they stream at approx 9.5-11Mibps as shown in the WebIF/Sysmon - Network Usage graphs (I have package system monitoring installed). This was watching something like Avengers Assemble HD recorded from BBC1. During testing I noticed there will be stutters during the action sequences if the connection was lower than, say 9Mibps..
Also, is there any reason why one Humax on strong WiFi, one on powerline adapter may perform better than both on powerline adapter?
I think the max Mbps figure for a powerline/homeplug network relates to the whole set of plugs in the network. So the number of homeplug devices share the, eg 500Mbps connection. How many of these homeplug devices do you have in your network? What is the Mbps rating for them? Also how is the Xbox connected to the router? Ie via Wifi or another one of these homeplugs?
 
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aekostas

Member
Thanks, I will install system monitoring and check.

In addition to the adapter connected to the router, I have five adapters. When I took the measurements, two of them were unplugged, including the one connected to the Xbox. The Xbox can also be connected via WiFi, it was shut down when I was taking the measurements and it was connected to WiFi in the prior instance when succeeded in streaming HD content. All of the adapters are Comtrend, all are rated at 200 Mbps and the three plus one in play when I took the measurements are the same model, i.e. the 9020.
 
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aekostas

Member
One thought is do you have an old spare router/ethernet switch?
If you did you could connect both of the of the humaxes to the spare router and connect it to comtrend adapter.
That way you would have the benefit of cable connections between the humaxes but still have connection to the rest of the network and internet plus a wifi signal extender
I tried this method and the test file (STV HDTV) shows marvelously. I cannot readily make this the norm, but I can induce the occasional trip-hazard if needed.
That would be very clever, seeing as the HDR's Ethernet port is 100Mbps top whack, then you have to account for protocol overheads, and the processing is not likely to be able to sustain such a rate. I suspect you are being told porkies.
The Comtrends show some kind of measurement all the time and it's way up high as reported, whether I stream or not; the page refreshes periodically and the numbers fluctuate. I don't know how they take these measurements, but yes, they appear optimistic. Here is an example for those interested:
ComtrendMonitoring.png
That sounds odd, as I can playback HD recordings without issue from one HDR to a second HDR when they stream at approx 9.5-11Mibps as shown in the WebIF/Sysmon - Network Usage graphs (I have package system monitoring installed). This was watching something like Avengers Assemble HD recorded from BBC1. During testing I noticed there will be stutters during the action sequences if the connection was lower than, say 9Mibps..
I downloaded the sysmon package and decided to copy the STV HDTV file across the boxes this morning, my idea was to extrapolate bandwidth from file size and duration. I can see graphs; can I see numbers?
HumiiFileTransfer.png
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
can I see numbers?
Possibly, if you can read databases. The file in question is /mod/monitor/monitor.db, but it does not appear to be available for inspection via WebIF >> Diagnostics >> Database Browser. That does not mean you can't use sqlite at the command line, or copy the file out and examine it using sqlite (or something) on a PC.
 
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aekostas

Member
Possibly, if you can read databases.
It's been "a while" since I last handled a DB, I would have too much catch-up to do. I can see the timestamp of the last file copied for this recording on the CLI. I will do it again tomorrow, note down when I start and that should suffice.
 

MymsMan

Ad detector
If running commands from the command line you can precede the command with time to get the execution time
Code:
time cp fromfile dest
Saves resorting to the stop watch
 

bottletop

Member
...
I downloaded the sysmon package and decided to copy the STV HDTV file across the boxes this morning, my idea was to extrapolate bandwidth from file size and duration. I can see graphs; can I see numbers?
View attachment 5002
As a rough guess your file took 40 minutes to transfer, its size is probably close to 3500MB.

These are my findings when I tested the connection for my two HDR-FOX-T2, called HDR1 and HDR2.
The transfer speeds were read from the WebIF/Sysmon - Network Usage graphs.
Each have Generic rt3070 usb WiFi adapter (advertised as 150Mbps).
WiFi connected speed 54 Mbps (as shown on HDR1/2 menus).

Copying 500MB (476.84MiB)) file from HDR1 to HDR2 both using WiFi, via HDR1 Media - Video/Storage/USB to copy to HDR2.
Max 13.25Mibps approx 5.5 minutes.

Copying 500MB file from HDR1 to laptop/mobile using WiFi.
Max 21-26Mibps approx 2.25-3.25 minutes. Transfers to/from HDR2 were similar, but usually 5% slower.

Copying 500MB file from HDR1 to HDR2 using ethernet cable.
Max 62Mibps approx 1 minute or max 52Mibps approx 1.5 minute reverse direction.

I have nfs, smb and ftp installed on both HDR, they see each other using nfs (network shares automount).
I use FileZilla to transfer files to/from laptop and HDRs as it shows elapsed time in seconds.
I created a dummy file (500MB with ext mkv) to transfer by dd bs=1MB if=/dev/urandom of=z-dummyfile1.mkv count=500 status=progress

edit1: I've tested transfer from HDR1 to laptop using smb, ftp and nfs. They seem to show similar speeds. smb and ftp are generally supported in android apps (and easy to setup/access via laptop), while nfs between the HDRs works best.
 
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aekostas

Member
So, today, I cannot reproduce the problem. We already had a hint yesterday: the file took approximately 40 minutes and its running time is reported by the WebIF browser as 58 minutes, so if copying and streaming is the same thing, then it should be comfortable. Here are some statistics:
  • ls -l reports the four files associated with the recording as 1,909,016,608 bytes, or 15,272,132,864 bits, or 14,564 Mb.
  • Transfer from HumaxOld to HumaxNew took approximately 29 minutes; the inverse took 30 minutes. As this is approximate, let's call it the same, 30 minutes, or 1800 sec.
  • The average bandwidth achieved during these transfers was around 8.09 Mbps
Things that have changed between glitchy recordings and test are as follows:
  • I installed sysmon
  • The boxes autoupdate
  • I changed the cable in one of the connections
Things to test:
  • That playing while transfering does not affect things
    • Indeed I watched some with no problems, but then switched off the TVs
  • That caching does not come into play (I have been bouncing about the same file)
  • That putting other devices on does not affect things
    • My laptop was on all this time, and connected to the powerline network, but I wasn't working on it
    • The AVR sound system was off, as was its subwoofer
    • I am looking at you, Xbox, you and your controllers :)
  • The folly: what do I get if I cross-transfer. :cool:
 
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aekostas

Member
  • The folly: what do I get if I cross-transfer. :cool:
  • I started a transfer of a new to me BBC HD program, total 13,999 Mb, at 12:56 into the old Humax and it finished at 13:31 (35 minutes).
    • Achieved bandwidth: 6.66 Mbps
    • The reported runtime of the program is 64 minutes (scheduled 60).
  • I started a transfer of a different, new to me BBC HD program, total 22,071 Mb, at 12:57 into the new Humax and it finished at 13:47 (50 minutes).
    • Achieved bandwidth: 7.357 Mbps
    • The reported runtime of the program is 58 minutes (scheduled 60).
Graph:
HumaxNew1630.png
 
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Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
  • I started a transfer of a new to me BBC HD program, total 13,999 Mb, at 12:56 into the old Humax and it finished at 13:31 (35 minutes).
    • Achieved bandwidth: 6.66 Mbps
    • The reported runtime of the program is 64 minutes (scheduled 60).
  • I started a transfer of a different, new to me BBC HD program, total 22,071 Mb, at 12:57 into the new Humax and it finished at 13:47 (50 minutes).
    • Achieved bandwidth: 7.357 Mbps
    • The reported runtime of the program is 58 minutes (scheduled 60).
And what does your cockpit thing report? That's a lot short of 100Mbps!
 
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aekostas

Member
Yes, let’s agree to ignore the Comtrend dashboard.

I will keep looking into it, as per my previous list, including the Xbox; I just need my co-worker to start his evening shift as I stream something HD.
 

bottletop

Member
It looks like your tests confirm the two HDRs can transfer and stream between each other at speeds that should allow you to watch HD content from each other.
I think they are not HomePlug, a different standard, but same idea. The other day we watched something HD perfectly until my son started playing on the Xbox (same network, WiFi). While he was downloading an update, perfect; when he started playing, unwatchable.

The problem being that today the same recording was unwatchable, even with the Xbox off, so I had no idea what to report. I checked some hummy.tv threads this am, I am none the wiser.
...
Just going back to this.
So any luck with this previous recording?
Can you now watch it from the source HDR it was recorded from? If not, it may be a corrupt recording.
Can you watch it from the other HDR (streaming)?
Can you watch it from the other HDR (by transferring it first to destination HDR using network/USB drive)?
 
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aekostas

Member
So any luck with this previous recording?
Can you now watch it from the source HDR it was recorded from? If not, it may be a corrupt recording.
We were able to watch it with no problems at all, not a single glitch.
Can you watch it from the other HDR (streaming)?
Can you watch it from the other HDR (by transferring it first to destination HDR using network/USB drive)?
I have now deleted this recording.

But last night I tried again one of the recordings that I had copied across in my benchmarks and it was not watchable when streaming: instant, unacceptable glitching.

So I tried again this morning and it started fine, and I went about the house pretending it was night time: Heating on, lights on, Xbox on, other-room subwoofer on, the lot, and it started glitching. So I started switching off, but could not reliably isolate a culprit. I am wondering if streaming is radically different to copying, but I have no idea.

It is very frustrating. And I am really thankful to all contributing to this thread.
 

bottletop

Member
...
So I tried again this morning and it started fine, and I went about the house pretending it was night time: Heating on, lights on, Xbox on, other-room subwoofer on, the lot, and it started glitching. So I started switching off, but could not reliably isolate a culprit. I am wondering if streaming is radically different to copying, but I have no idea.

It is very frustrating. And I am really thankful to all contributing to this thread.
Your network is not coping. Maybe you're getting electrical interference from one or more possibly faulty device.
Is the Xbox using the WiFi or the powerline plug?
So you use fancy smart lights?
Does the network cope if you ensure the boiler is off for the duration while testing?
Do you have the powerline plugs attached to the wall sockets?
Does the status led on the powerline change colour while you're streaming.
But yes, there are differences between streaming and transferring files. Streaming sacrifices some error checking for speed etc.
Why not use a mobile and record the TV screen while you're watching a stream? Then every 30 seconds switch something on/off. Take note of the sequence eg write it down. Then review the video you took and compare with your notes.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I am wondering if streaming is radically different to copying
Not radically maybe, but copying is not bothered by fits and starts. For streaming, the average overall data rate might be sufficient, but if a break is long enough for the buffer to empty you get a break in service.
 
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aekostas

Member
Your network is not coping. Maybe you're getting electrical interference from one or more possibly faulty device.
That's what I was trying to isolate.
Is the Xbox using the WiFi or the powerline plug?
At the times of test, the WiFi.
So you use fancy smart lights?
I use three plug-in timers: for the subwoofer, an evening light and some active speakers.
Does the network cope if you ensure the boiler is off for the duration while testing?
It looked like it. And it looked like it could cope with the boiler on too.
Do you have the powerline plugs attached to the wall sockets?
Yes.
Does the status led on the powerline change colour while you're streaming.
Occasionally, yes.
But yes, there are differences between streaming and transferring files. Streaming sacrifices some error checking for speed etc.
So it should be doing better?
Why not use a mobile and record the TV screen while you're watching a stream? Then every 30 seconds switch something on/off. Take note of the sequence eg write it down. Then review the video you took and compare with your notes.
Good idea, but I don't need to; the sound drops out first.
Not radically maybe, but copying is not bothered by fits and starts. For streaming, the average overall data rate might be sufficient, but if a break is long enough for the buffer to empty you get a break in service.
Indeed. This is why I am wondering if the problem is delay or jitter (understanding of the buffers may be helpful here, but it starts streaming almost immediately, is my memory, so they may be small...).

EDIT: Does streaming add more load to the source and/or to the destination? Wondering if the night-time demands drop the voltage and the PSUs cannot cope.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Does streaming add more load to the source and/or to the destination? Wondering if the night-time demands drop the voltage and the PSUs cannot cope.
That doesn't seem very likely, from a hardware point of view.

understanding of the buffers may be helpful here, but it starts streaming almost immediately, is my memory, so they may be small...
It doesn't matter how large they are, they only fill at the rate the data comes in and empty at the rate the data is consumed. If the data isn't coming in very fast, it won't get far ahead of the read. What can help is pausing playback for a few minutes - the buffers get a chance to fill up a bit.
 

/df

Active Member
One piece of counter-intuitive advice is to plug any especially noisy kit into the powerline pass-through socket, which (at least in some models) is filtered, rather than trying to keep such devices away from the powerline kit as you might think. I don't have these in use so can't vouch for the advice other than that it could make sense.

See <https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4426-bt-issues-safety-notice-over-comtrend-powerline-adapters> regarding the brand.

Or, you can get very nice flat network cable that is easy to hide: for instance in the jungle waters of Brazil, lengths of 7.5m to 30m are on offer.
 
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