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[nicesplice]+[nicesplice-magic-folders] On box video editing

af123

Administrator
Staff member
A private/personal message - If you hover over the 'Inbox' link at the top right, you should see an option to Start a New Conversation
 
Suggestion/request:
Would it be possible to "share" nicesplice cut points over the web automatically?

Primarily I'm thinking about cutting adverts from popularly recorded programs. Once one person has bookmarked all the ad start/end points, could they be uploaded to a database (I guess through something similar to remote scheduling), then everyone elses boxes automatically download them and chop out the adverts for everyone else.

Obviously there might need to be some safeguards/manual checks in place, but it would be an awesome thing to have!
 

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
By using the hmt Custom Firmware package you can examine a recording's bookmarks, they are recorded in seconds, so for example
Code:
humax# hmt -bookmarks Click_20140104_0130.hmt
156 284 525 766 887 1129 1370
humax#
Equates to 7 (bookmarks) @ 00:02:36, 00:04:44, 00:08:45, 00:12:46, 00:14:47, 00:18:49, 00:22:50 Hours:Mins:Seconds

However although it is possible to use the hmt package to display bookmarks, I'm not sure you can insert them using the same package, you could copy
(in this case), the Click_20140104_0130.hmt file from one Humax to the another I suppose
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Even if you could, everyone's recording would start at slightly different times and therefore the time index would have a different datum.

The best bet, if one were prepared to do it, would be for one initial volunteer to edit up the recording, and then make it available to other members through a private torrent (using the transmission package).
 
Do start times of recordings really vary by a significant amount between machines?
(I was assuming it's all a pretty deterministic process, but I guess maybe not)
 
Do start times of recordings really vary by a significant amount between machines?
Depends up on your definition of significant amount ... :)

If you mean enough seconds to make a difference to where you would want to put bookmarks for cropping ... then yes. Start times of actual recordings vary due to each boxes settings for using AR or padding - e.g. 1, 2 or 5 mins added.

If you mean the start times of the programmes transmission, then its harder to say but there are all the regional differences for BBC, ITV transmissions etc.
 
:) ok, but assuming you set your box to AR (or to an agreed "standard" padding) and were in the same region as the person that set the cut times?
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Fair enough, but you are cutting down your potential collaborators. If you are hoping somebody else will provide you with cut points, the answer will probably be "do it yourself". I rarely consider it worthwhile in any case.
 
:) ok, but assuming you set your box to AR (or to an agreed "standard" padding) and were in the same region as the person that set the cut times?
:) ... OK ... yes ... Assuming out of all the people who own Humax HDR-T2 PVRs, you take the subset of people who use the Custom Firmware, then the subset of people who live in your region, then the subset of people who recorded a particular programme, with AR and then out of that group found the subset who want to crop it using Nicesplice - then one person figuring out the bookmarks to crop the start, end and advert breaks may be useful to the others of that select group :)
However the timescale in which the figuring out occurs would be completely variable, and its likely that different people have different preferences for exactly where the bookmarks should be placed, as using Nicesplice for editing, though very convenient and easy, is somewhat imprecise compared to other methods.
 
:) I've no idea what the potential numbers of people would be, although I presume someone with access to the remote-scheduling details could probably estimate?!
I'd guess that plenty of people (most?) use AR, or might consider switching in order to use this system. So for popular programs I'd expect it to still be a pretty reasonable number of people? If just one of those people, who was watching soon after airing, was nice enough to bookmark the ad breaks, then everyone else could have them automatically removed. (Perhaps some kind of rewards or recognition system for bookmarked ads could be implemented to incentivise this?)

I just really hate watching adverts I guess, or even having to skip through them! :)
 

MontysEvilTwin

Well-Known Member
Welf's idea is a nice one, but it would be very difficult to make it work. Padding on its own would be out of the question as the start point would be dependent on the clock and this can easily vary by 30 seconds or so. AR, or the ARbookmarks package with a padded recording (for the start of the programme only: I have found the placement of the end bookmark with this package to be a bit hit and miss), might be made to work but:
DelftBlue said:
using Nicesplice for editing, though very convenient and easy, is somewhat imprecise compared to other methods.
I agree. I am a big fan of Nicesplice but it tends to cut a bit after where the mark is placed. This is fine when you can tweak a bookmark and re-crop the original, but it would be difficult to get anything other than a crude edit by applying someone else's crop points to your file.

I have an ageing Panasonic combined unit with SD freeview, VHS recorder, DVD rewriter and 250GB hard drive. I mention it because the editing on this box is amazing. It has frame by frame advance and you can crop to the exact frame. Editing is very quick as it simply removes unwanted sections from the original file: no copying required. I have not come across another box which is as precise and quick as this one.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I have an ageing Panasonic combined unit with SD freeview, VHS recorder, DVD rewriter and 250GB hard drive. I mention it because the editing on this box is amazing. It has frame by frame advance and you can crop to the exact frame. Editing is very quick as it simply removes unwanted sections from the original file: no copying required. I have not come across another box which is as precise and quick as this one.
I used to be able to do frame by frame edits on an analogue PVR, but there are significant difficulties in the digital domain. The video stream is compressed by having a key frame every now and again (which is effectively a still jpeg), and then a series of subsequent frames are transmitted as differences from the key frame. Consequently the "easy" edit points require the start of each section to coincide with a key frame. The bookmark quantizations do not necessarily correspond with key frames, hence the difference between the bookmark points and the actual cut.

Proper video editors recreate all the frames and then recode the video stream from them, so that edits can be precise. It doesn't seem very likely your Panny did that though.
 

af123

Administrator
Staff member
It's certainly technically possible. Each recording has a stored 'start time' and bookmarks are offsets to that. The RS server could act as a central time reference (upgrading to rs 1.0.6 and running 'rs time' from the CLI will show you how many seconds your box is off by). It should be possible to publish near enough absolute timestamps based on that regardless of whether padding or AR was used..
 
Is anyone else having trouble with nicesplice and HD recordings?

I have a number of HD recording that will not be processed correctly by nicesplice. They always fail early into the .ts file with an EOF error.

I've tried encrypted and decrypted files, shrunk and unshrunk, but the files always fail in the same place.
I think it is a similar problem to this one: http://hummy.tv/forum/threads/corrupt-recordins-nicesplice-issue.6821/

Here's an example:
Processing Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198 (inverted: 0)
Moving recording to /media/NASserver/_original
Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198.ts
Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198.nts
Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198.hmt
Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198.thm
CMD: /mod/bin/nicesplice -in {/media/NASserver/_original/Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198} -out {/media/NASserver/Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198} -cutBookMarks
Found bookmark at - 206
Found bookmark at - 5825
progLen = 6118s, 2 bookmarks, HD = 1
Read 196661 entries from nts
cut at nan seconds = frame 5906 (206918)
cut at nan seconds = frame 189067 (5825839)
---
Read failure/EOF within frame 7385 skipping rest of file
Wrote 1483 entries to /media/NASserver/Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198. Stripped 0 packets (0k) of EPG data
New Program Length = 53s now shrunk
Renaming file group to Lara Croft_ Tomb Raider_20160123_2353-1453736198-1453736293
Time taken: 18.748
 

MontysEvilTwin

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else having trouble with nicesplice and HD recordings?

I have a number of HD recording that will not be processed correctly by nicesplice. They always fail early into the .ts file with an EOF error.

I've tried encrypted and decrypted files, shrunk and unshrunk, but the files always fail in the same place.
I think it is a similar problem to this one: http://hummy.tv/forum/threads/corrupt-recordins-nicesplice-issue.6821/

Here's an example:
I see this occasionally. It is caused by a glitch in the recording, often due to a brief signal dropout. Sometimes nicesplice will still work if you shrink the file first, but not always. The only other way around it (without editing on a PC, for example) is to position the first bookmark at the point where the crop fails and crop the rest of the file. You can then join the first cropped section (the one where you got the error message) to the second using the join function, though you will get a slight artefact at the join point in the combined file.
 
I had exactly the same problem with lara croft.
The cut point had to be moved right to the start of the movie after the opening "we distribute it" part of the credits to get it to work.
I'm seeing this more and more in the last couple of weeks.
Coincidentally this was when I upgraded my boxes to CF 3
I say coincidentally because I'm just pointing that out in case it should turn out to be relevant.
My suspicion however is the BBC are inseting EOF markers into the data at various points that are recognised by nicesplice but not by playback.
Perhaps it would be worth us all noting what programs this happens on to help see if it is just drop-outs? (Or if limited to just the BBC)
 
I was looking for a way to do a slightly different cut; rather than cut/keep/cut/keep/cut, I want to cut/keep_file_1/cut/keep_file_2/cut or even occasionally keep_file_1/keep_file_2/keep_file_3/keep_file_4/keep_file_5.
Not something I want to do too often, so I can use the command line as described on http://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Edit_On_Box.
However, I needed to find the values for the bookmarks and short looking them up on the webif and doing the hh:mm:ss to seconds conversion for myself, Ezra seemed to have the answer
By using the hmt Custom Firmware package you can examine a recording's bookmarks, they are recorded in seconds, so for example
Code:
humax# hmt -bookmarks Click_20140104_0130.hmt
156 284 525 766 887 1129 1370
humax#
Equates to 7 (bookmarks) @ 00:02:36, 00:04:44, 00:08:45, 00:12:46, 00:14:47, 00:18:49, 00:22:50 Hours:Mins:Seconds
So, 2 questions...
nicesplice accepts 1/10 seconds cutpoints, but hmt only supplies 1 second accuracy. With cuts only on I frames, the 1 second is maybe sufficient anyway, but is that what webif and magic folder uses or are bookmarks stored/accessible with 1/10 accuracy?
Could we get the hmt example added to the command line section of edit_on_box page (subject to the answer to my previous question)?