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[rs] Remote Scheduling v1

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
@af123:

I have confirmed @Luke's observations. Any unqualified string in the search field is treated as if it were enclosed in speech marks, ie as a single search term instead of a series of alternative search terms (with implied OR). This is not what the wiki description says, and it explains my problem with fleming 007 not finding any hits until your syntax forced the OR operation.

Is it supposed to work like that?
Even with my syntax adapted to enforce the OR, I still missed yesterday's R4 adaptation of "Live And Let Die". My EPGs don't seem to extend back that far (2.30pm Saturday) - does anyone have the data so I can see what to key the search on?
 

MymsMan

Ad detector
Even with my syntax adapted to enforce the OR, I still missed yesterday's R4 adaptation of "Live And Let Die". My EPGs don't seem to extend back that far (2.30pm Saturday) - does anyone have the data so I can see what to key the search on?
As a pragmatic solution wouldn't it be better to convert the rule to an Advanced rule where you can be more explicit about your AND/OR conditions and combinations.

With Standard Rule the documentation and implementation should match but I suspect that it will be easier to change the documentation to match the implementation than vice versa. Even if @af123 had the time and inclination to make changes to Standard Rules I think he would find it difficult to do so in a way that didn't break other existing rules that depend on the current implementation
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
As a pragmatic solution wouldn't it be better to convert the rule to an Advanced rule where you can be more explicit about your AND/OR conditions and combinations.
...but I have no idea what to be explicit about! If "fleming" OR "007" didn't catch yesterday's broadcast, what will (without also triggering too many false positives)? Fortunately there's the fallback of youtube-dl, but that only works if a broadcast comes to my attention post-event and pre-expiry. (Not that it really matters.)

Even if @af123 had the time and inclination to make changes to Standard Rules I think he would find it difficult to do so in a way that didn't break other existing rules that depend on the current implementation
Sure, but my intention was to check whether, supposing this was not the intended behaviour, it is at least predicted behaviour as per the actual code. I'm happy to edit the relevant wiki stuff, but I would like confirmation that this is what it does rather than just guesswork by observation.

@af123 might agree that the current behaviour is not intuitive compared with the de facto "standard" of Google search logic (and therefore the common expectation) that search phrases should be quoted, and unquoted phrases are individual strings ANDed (not ORed - OR requires a keyword).
  • What does the actual code say it does?
  • What do we think it should actually do as an ideal - if not de facto search standard, then what?
  • What impact would it have on existing users if it were changed to the ideal behaviour?
  • Is it straightforward to change to the ideal behaviour?
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
Even with my syntax adapted to enforce the OR, I still missed yesterday's R4 adaptation of "Live And Let Die". My EPGs don't seem to extend back that far (2.30pm Saturday) - does anyone have the data so I can see what to key the search on?
Is this what you are after?
4069

That was found using
or {lcn 704 lcn 708 } or {synopsis fleming synopsis 007 } !synopsis 2007. action emailevents

4070
 
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Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I have incorporated that, thanks, and I get the same result for matching events... but that raises another query: no matter what I try within Standard Rules, I cannot generate that hit. Could it be that the Standard Rules matching events do not look into the past, whereas Advanced Rules do?

Also, with the string "007s" being present in the synopsis, it appears that Standard Rules look for complete strings, whereas Advanced Rules accept sub-strings!
 

mihaid

Active Member
Even with my syntax adapted to enforce the OR, I still missed yesterday's R4 adaptation of "Live And Let Die". My EPGs don't seem to extend back that far (2.30pm Saturday) - does anyone have the data so I can see what to key the search on?
I would do [fleming and (007 or bond)] obviously with the correct logical notation for the rs rules
 

mihaid

Active Member
I did find something odd in the simple rule which appeared in your example

say this simple rule title or synopsis = 007

does not return events where it is written as : 007s or 007's or any other possible ending the tv guide compilers may use.

change that to 007* aaaand bingo. those results appear.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
I did find something odd in the simple rule which appeared in your example

say this simple rule title or synopsis = 007

does not return events where it is written as : 007s or 007's or any other possible ending the tv guide compilers may use.

change that to 007* aaaand bingo. those results appear.
With the simple rule of just synopsis 007, I get exactly the same 68 results as with 007*.

I can replicate your result if I enter 007 with a space after it. Are you sure that you did not have a space after 007?

Could it be that the Standard Rules matching events do not look into the past, whereas Advanced Rules do?
Yes.
I set a simple rule for 20007. in the synopsis and it found 11 future events. Using the convertion option to convert it to an advanced rule with no further changes, and the ensuing advanced rule finds those 11, plus an additional few past events.
 
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mihaid

Active Member
With the simple rule of just synopsis 007, I get exactly the same 68 results as with 007*.

I can replicate your result if I enter 007 with a space after it. Are you sure that you did not have a space after 007?
sorry, I thought I was clever and replaced my actual word with your example of 007. and it fell flat. my example actually works
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Sure, but I have no explanation why my original search settings didn't trigger an email, and (at the time) I wondered whether an extra space might have caused it. I didn't get any matching events when I played with the terms either, which also lead my mind down that path... but of course I wouldn't have done because of not including past events.

Synopsis = +(fleming 007) ought to have triggered, unless that particular syntax doesn't search for substrings.
 

mihaid

Active Member
Sure, but I have no explanation why my original search settings didn't trigger an email, and (at the time) I wondered whether an extra space might have caused it. I didn't get any matching events when I played with the terms either, which also lead my mind down that path... but of course I wouldn't have done because of not including past events.

Synopsis = +(fleming 007) ought to have triggered, unless that particular syntax doesn't search for substrings.
You need to add an asterisk to 007* perhaps even to Fleming because that description said 007s. I had similar misfirings
 

ChrisDaniels

Well-Known Member
Hi all, just noticed that I cannot set a record for the upcoming show “Brexit: Behind Closed Doors” on BBC4 HD on both the Webif and the RS site.
The buttons to set the record are missing.
They do show up on the BBC4 SD version though.
Anyone else confirm this?

EDIT: Already have it set to record, so that might explain it. Ignore me if this is the case!
 

MymsMan

Ad detector
EDIT: Already have it set to record, so that might explain it. Ignore me if this is the case!
Yes, normal for recording buttons to be omitted for already scheduled recording,
It would be nice if the buttons to Cancel, Reschedule, Skip were shown instead
 
OP
af123

af123

Administrator
Staff member
Some clarification here is certainly warranted!

Advanced rules

String matching for advanced rules is processed like this:

  • If the search string begins with a + or a - then pass it to the database (MariaDB) search engine using match(field) against (val in boolean mode);
  • Otherwise, if the search string contains a * then treat it as a wildcard (passed to the database as field like val);
  • Otherwise, if the string is enclosed with " then the field much match exactly;
  • Otherwise treat it as a substring (wrap it as *val* and pass to wildcard handling).
The help tries to convey the available options: 4078

Simple rules

  • If the search string begins with a + or - then pass it to the database search engine (as per advanced rules);
  • Otherwise treat it as a substring.

https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/full-text-index-overview/#in-boolean-mode
 
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Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Clarification? I don't really understand the ins and outs of all that, so I certainly don't relish the idea of distilling it for the wiki.

What about the issue of Advanced Rules looking at the whole EPG history, but Simple Rules only looking at future events?
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
How does this:
Otherwise treat it as a substring (wrap it as *val* and pass to wildcard handling).
...correlate with this (for "*"):
https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/full-text-index-overview/#in-boolean-mode said:
The wildcard, indicating zero or more characters. It can only appear at the end of a word.
?
 
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