MikeSh
Well-Known Member
Maybe we'll go through Windemere
(I'll actually do what Google says ... just hope via Whitehaven or Carlisle aren't the best recommendations
)
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The UK Driving Test
- Thread starter Black Hole
- Start date
(I'll actually do what Google says ... just hope via Whitehaven or Carlisle aren't the best recommendations
)
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Try Waze.
As usual, "most" requires more evidence than hearsay.
It is deprecated, and no longer taught*. These days, instruction is to only change down when about to apply power, changing to the correct gear for the speed at the time. Brake wear is routine maintenance, gearbox and clutch wear is not. Besides, my driving style is to lift off in good time...
Not so, I think you've been brainwashed the other way. With appropriate anticipation I minimise brake wear and therefore maximise MPG. My automatic experience does not replicate this, where braking has been found necessary to prevent run-away. (Note this was in proper autos, not computer-controlled gearbox-with-clutch.) There is only no engine braking if the clutch is depressed (or the gearbox is in neutral), and coasting with the clutch disengaged (or out of gear) would be a test failure.
In order to maintain proper control of an automatic, the left foot is supposed to remain on the brake pedal – because the driver is not otherwise in full control and might need to impede unexpected forward motion at any moment. Very few people I know considering transitioning from manual to auto realised that, and I have advised against changing to automatics because of the necessary change of technique. This remains necessary for a computer-controlled gearbox, in case of the unexpected.
Fundamentally, the problem with automatics (whether fluid-coupled or computer-controlled) is this: the "automatic" only responds to conditions and demand, it cannot anticipate. As a manual driver, I can select the appropriate gear just before it is required; an automatic always selects it just after it is needed (if it guesses right at all). Simples.
* For decelerating to a junction or whatever. You might still use a lower gear for cornering, where the higher engine revs allow finer modulation and control through the corner. Try that in an auto!
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prpr
Well-Known Member
I used to use it but ditched it as it became crap and went to Google. That is also crap, often sending you straight into a big jam. I'm just going to use my own judgement using these things as a loose guide. I wish I'd ignored it last Thu. - I nearly did.
I tried it once or twice and nearly ended up through the windscreen. I guess most people are similar. I don't see the problem with using right only.
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
People who are used to manual, yes. That's why I advise against it if the person concerned is elderly and thinking of converting to make things easier.
However, the main problem is forgetting you're in an automatic, and depressing the non-existent clutch pedal with the left foot while moving the right foot from the accelerator to the brake. You end up with both feet on the brake and scaring the shit out of the car behind.
You might get away with that in a computerised manual, but you only have to check out YouTube for runaway auto accidents to understand that there is a problem. The correct technique for automatics is right foot on gas and left foot on brake.
MikeSh
Well-Known Member
So how exactly do you slow from, say, 40 mph in 4th gear down to 5 mph (for a turning) without changing gear or depressing the clutch?
MikeSh
Well-Known Member
That is the biggest load of cobblers I've seen for a while. I never use my left foot for braking, except for a hold when stopped, for exactly this reason:
If you drive a manual (and I still have to sometimes) the muscle memory for the left foot is quick down, slow up, For the right foot it's slow down, quick up. And with modern cars the amount of force is substantially different too. Trying to change that programming on the fly is hard.
And how is having the left foot on the brake being more in control? In a manual car you have to move from throttle to brake, so doing the same in an auto is exactly the same.
If you never drive manual then using both feet is optional - my wife does this. But when she was teaching her son to drive (in an auto obvs) they were approaching a roundabout at speed when he yelled "It's not slowing down". Fortunately she realised he was pressing both brake and throttle! As he was going to eventually move to manual for his test I told him just to use his right foot for brake and throttle. All fine after that.
bottletop
Active Member
I agree with your points here, especially about the muscle memory regarding left and right foot.
One thing that annoys me about cars is often the pressure required for the braking or accelerating (in different cars) to take effect is odd/reversed. Ie do I mash the brake or accelerator pedal to get the heavy object to stop or go?
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
I said you're not allowed to coast out of gear, I didn't say you are not allowed to change gear. Applying the brake is not coasting, coasting is when there is no mechanical control over the motion of the vehicle.
I'm not talking about what the typical sloppy driver does, I'm talking about correct regulation driving. I've even seen police cars with brake lights on when stationary and facing uphill.
Just google it. Left foot braking is safer in automatics, if you can master it. Rally drivers use left and right foot braking in manuals.
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EEPhil
Number 28
I understood the wisdom is/was to be in the appropriate gear for your speed and the road conditions. It's a while since I last drove any car (cost, not a ban!), but I always used to change down on the approach to a roundabout, as I was slowing, to utilise some engine braking and to be more responsive if I don't have to give way. Having never driven an automatic I have no idea how that would translate. I'd have to drive an automatic to find if BH's left foot on brake is a good idea. Instinctively, I'd say not. However, as someone near me once had a car creep forward and take out the back wall of a garage, I'd never say never!
With a manual gearbox, the only times I've "misused" my left foot are: to dry wet brakes - light pressure on brakes with left foot whilst right on accelerator; when on long journey on motorway at 70mph and cramp in right knee, short spell of left foot on accelerator.
RobH1
Well-Known Member
Maybe we'll go through Windemere
Good luck. Make sure you spell it correctly in the satnav 
EEPhil
Number 28
That'll be the so-called police advanced drivers that don't follow the police driving recommendations.
bottletop
Active Member
Left foot braking takes skill and practise. It's fine if you're in Motorsport. They aren't many cars going the opposite direction. You can practice on track - the professionals behind will anticipate your manoeuvres from the pace and placement of your car. You don't get that in real life - just impatient people everywhere. Also if anything goes wrong, the very expensive race car has roll cage, fire suppression and marshalls to help. That's Motorsport. You're trying to keep the car going forward as fast as you can with minimal loss of speed by braking or taking corners. Rally drivers also cut corners and go off road. Maybe the general public should do those as well?
gomezz
Well-Known Member
I drive a manual car and an automatic work van and use right foot braking for both. I also go karting for which you have to use left foot braking. I seem to automatically know which foot to use for what depending on what I am driving. Call it contextual muscle memory.
I have more of a problem sometimes mixing up the light control stalk and the wiper stalk between the car and the van as they are on opposite sides as did a friend of mine once in a hire car when someone cut her up and she furiously washed her windscreen at them!
MikeSh
Well-Known Member
The results suggest this is to do with manoeuvring in a confined space at very slow speed where stabbing the brake doesn't matter. In fact I sometimes do this putting swmbo's car away as there is a lip at the garage door needing a bit of power to get over, and her transmission is a little grabby.
But I would expect there are just as many accidents like that with manual transmissions - any vehicle that's in a 'drive' configuration will move if the driver commands it, like their foot slipping off the clutch.
But that's a very specific use case and the deaths are for the most part Darwin cases if you think about it. (I always try and avoid walking in front or behind anything with it's engine running, and never behind if the reversing lights are on, even if the driver has waved me past. (And if I'm the driver in that situation, and some others, I'll take it out of gear and press the foot brake to make it clear I won't be moving for the time being.))
MikeSh
Well-Known Member
Crikey, I thought that was a thing of the past and there was now a consensus off left for lights, right for wipers. Is one of those vehicles quite old?
MikeSh
Well-Known Member
This has certainly brought back memories. I used to double de-clutch a lot (my first cars had no synchromesh on 1st gear, and not very good on the rest) and still do that sometimes when I have a manual car that's a bit balky.
I did learn to heel-and-toe as well at one point, but I think that's a lost skill for me now. I'm certainly not going to try and find out
I did learn to heel-and-toe as well at one point, but I think that's a lost skill for me now. I'm certainly not going to try and find out
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
But nonetheless not the bullshit you claimed. If you only drive automatics, and do not have to switch between manual and automatic, then left foot braking is the best way. Anyone driving an automatic, even occasionally, needs to be at least aware of it.
I had occasion and opportunity to speak to a driver in a supermarket car park, who was signalling right for left and left for right. Turns out he'd changed cars and the indicator stalk had swapped sides, but he didn't realise the stalk operates in the same direction as you turn the steering wheel – he thought up is left and down is right (or vice versa) regardless of which side the stalk is!
Is there a consensus which side the stalk is? I'm not at all sure about that.
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MikeSh
Well-Known Member
Everything I've driven in the last couple of decades has been left lights (or at least indicators and flash - one had a dash switch to select off/side/head), but I've certainly not driven every make.
antipodean
Active Member
Oh? My Mk4 Mondeo seems to have a decent 6 speed auto (yes it is a powershift version).
I quite enjoy driving it, and will select sport mode when looking for engine braking (it does seem to be minimal in standard mode). It gives quite decent engine braking then. The one that amuses me is when using manual mode as you slow down the box will quite happily change down, then when you take off again you wonder why the engine is roaring ...
antipodean
Active Member
Yeah, but they also don't have a clutch, and have a gear stick that works the same way my automatic does when in manual mode.