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What We Know So Far ...

Owen Smith said:
I watch a lot of sub-titled stuff on BBC4. The time bar has a nasty habit of appearing on top of the sub-titles, meaning I have to jump back far enough that the time bar will have disappeared by the time the sub-titles appear with something I need to read. This is bad enough on the HDR Fox T2 when I pause a programme, but if it occurs when skipping as well that's even worse. If I miss some important picture content while reading the subtitles or versa I often skip back 15 seconds, if that means lots of button presses and the time bar appearing over the top of the subtitles that's going to be a fairly wretched experience.

And there is a point to my posting in this thread. Namely, if Humax are reading to persuade them they have made a mistake and change the product.

Question: is Freeview Play like Youview in that the UI is dictated by Youview/Freeview Play? Or are Humax free to provide whatever UI they like as with plain old Freeview? (In which case why did they change what was already nearly perfect ie. the HDR Fox T2 UI?).

And I don't like the HDR Fox T2 UI because it's the first one I used. I started on the Pace Twin and that had a lovely UI. Fortunately the HDR Fox T2 is very similar to the Pace Twin. Alas people seem to be failing to learn the lessons of those two excellent products.
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Now really confused.

We clearly do not know how much freedom Humax have in deciding the UI (However it does seem likely it's a lot more than Youview boxes).

Given the fact that the remote lacks the dedicated skip buttons, short of sending everyone a new remote there seems to be little chance of fixing it other than a ios/android app or a web based interface.

Your last 2 paragraphs completely contradict each other.

In which case why did they change what was already nearly perfect ie. the HDR Fox T2 UI?).

And I don't like the HDR Fox T2 UI because it's the first one I used.
 
A lot of people like the first one of a particular thing they used. I'm saying that it isn't because it was the first one I used that I like the HDR Fox T2. It seemed obvious to me when I wrote it, oh well.
 
As for Humax changing the product, I'm talking as much about the next model as I am changes to this one. Also, Humax could make it respond to the skip buttons on the older remote controls. These would then be available to people using universal remotes.
 
Brian said:
I have no wish to censor you or anyone else for that matter, but I can't see the point of someone commenting on a product that they have no interest in, nor have any intention to purchase.
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You can't? I can. I might have no intention of buying, say, a Vauxhall Corsa, but I don't see why that disqualifies me from debating its good or bad points based on my experience of cars in general. That discussion then informs people who might have less overall experience, or even reach the ears of Vauxhall to feed into their design decisions for future products.

There are clearly some of us who think the omission of direct skip buttons on the 4000 is a bad move, and another set who are so meek as to say "if that's what Humax decided to do, accept it and be grateful". Yuk.
 
Steppy said:
I will need to unbox it again tonight to check up on that as I am fitting it at the weekend hopefully. I just wanted to get all the updates and tuning done last night at home and a quick familiarisation so I am prepared when all the telephone support questions start occurring :D

From what I remember the symbols seemed to be quite random.... Am I understanding it correctly that if its a solid circle it means I have a version of that programme already recorded and can be played from the guide rather than going into the library and playing it?
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Yes, that is what I am theorising.

Steppy said:
Still dont understand what you are saying about the broken circle symbols because if it was due to be recorded wouldn't it be a red dot? maybe it will become clear tonight :)
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If your FVP-4000T is scheduled to record a repeat of a programme that is already available on catch-up then I would expect not only the red symbol in the epg against the future repeat but also a symbol to indicate that it can be played from catch-up now.
 
Owen Smith said:
This is bad enough on the HDR Fox T2 when I pause a programme, but if it occurs when skipping as well that's even worse. If I miss some important picture content while reading the subtitles or versa I often skip back 15 seconds, if that means lots of button presses and the time bar appearing over the top of the subtitles that's going to be a fairly wretched experience.
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I occasionally find I do need to go back 30 seconds so that the sub-title I am after is included. With just 15 second jump back don't you find that sometimes after skipback that the sub-title dosen't start to show up soon enough and that it is missing from what you want repeating? Or are you referring to live programmes, which don't appear to have that issue.
 
Owen Smith said:
...
why did they change what was already nearly perfect ie. the HDR Fox T2 UI?).

And I don't like the HDR Fox T2 UI because it's the first one I used.
...
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grahamlthompson said:
...
Your last 2 paragraphs completely contradict each other.
...
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Owen please correct me if I'm mistaken but I suspect that you meant that the reason that you like the HDR Fox T2 UI is not due it being the first one you used (... as it isn't the first one you used).
Graham also please correct me if I am wrong but I suspect that you read Owen's statement and thought that Owen was saying "I don't like the HDR Fox T2 UI".
 
I set up my friends FVP-4000T at the weekend and after talking her through all the controls and features I have decided I really like it now and decided to go ahead and order a 1TB version for myself. Thanks to an eBay bonus I got it for £185 :D

I am in a minority in actually liking the new way of skipping as I prefer to see the timeline so I can see how far I am progressing through the current programme.

Once mine arrives I will look into the solid and broken circles in the guide more. I did have a quick play and it seems the solid circles ahead in the guide mean that the program is available on catchup as its usally a repeat. The broken ones seem to point that they will be available on catch up later. These symbols only seem to appear on the BBC channels.
 
It may be totally irrelevant, but on my EE Box a dotted circular back arrow in the EPG means that the programme is still being transmitted but I can 'rewind' it back to the start and the normal play right arrow means 'watch from now'.
 
Trev said:
It may be totally irrelevant, but on my EE Box a dotted circular back arrow in the EPG means that the programme is still being transmitted but I can 'rewind' it back to the start and the normal play right arrow means 'watch from now'.
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Interesting and makes total sense :)
 
Luke said:
I occasionally find I do need to go back 30 seconds so that the sub-title I am after is included. With just 15 second jump back don't you find that sometimes after skipback that the sub-title dosen't start to show up soon enough and that it is missing from what you want repeating? Or are you referring to live programmes, which don't appear to have that issue.
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If 15 seconds isn't enough, I press the skip back button again. But nothing appears on screen like a time bar.
 
Steppy said:
I am in a minority in actually liking the new way of skipping as I prefer to see the timeline so I can see how far I am progressing through the current programme.
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Presumably you use the left and right cursor buttons on the HDR-FOX, as these provide timeline scrolling. HDR-FOX satisfies both preferences.
 
Steppy said:
I set up my friends FVP-4000T at the weekend and after talking her through all the controls and features I have decided I really like it now and decided to go ahead and order a 1TB version for myself. Thanks to an eBay bonus I got it for £185 :D

I am in a minority in actually liking the new way of skipping as I prefer to see the timeline so I can see how far I am progressing through the current programme.

Once mine arrives I will look into the solid and broken circles in the guide more. I did have a quick play and it seems the solid circles ahead in the guide mean that the program is available on catchup as its usally a repeat. The broken ones seem to point that they will be available on catch up later. These symbols only seem to appear on the BBC channels.
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Have had mine for about a month now,and although it has a few quirks,I certainly don't regret buying it. The HD PQ is the best I've seen on a Humax box,and it is also proving to be ultra reliable. So well done Humax,but please improve the programme guide. Preparing to be shot down now!!
 
Black Hole said:
Presumably you use the left and right cursor buttons on the HDR-FOX, as these provide timeline scrolling. HDR-FOX satisfies both preferences.
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No, I use the jump buttons on the HDR which doesn't show the timeline as I find using the left and right cursor keys a bit unpredictable and end up going further than I want, therefore I prefer the workings of the FVP :)
 
Black Hole said:
I wonder how much those things actually matter? Maybe (maybe!) Humax did some market research and discovered that those features are not used much. Maybe (and I realise this is heresy) if we didn't have them we would simply adopt an "is it what it is" attitude and just use it as it is.

I have my Humii set up to do all sorts of fancy things "because I can" - but have they been an overall time saver? I doubt it. If I hadn't been able to do that, I might have spent my time on something more productive!

(Which is not to say we don't have a great community as a result of "being able to", or that I have not had a great deal of value from being part of that community.)
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Many thanks to (particularly) Black Hole and Brian both of whom have made my experience with the HDR- FOX a pleasant one, the above post summarises my thoughts at this moment in time.

When I read about the 4000T I convinced my wife we needed a new box, and checked on here to see if the move was really worth it. In the mean time TalkTalk offered me a youview box for an extra £2-50 a month with an 18 month contract commitment, free delivery, and no installation cost. After reading some of the comments on here, specially ones from the likes of 4 hummy Graham and sad Luke, I decided to go for the youview box.

How dumb of me, I now have a box which I cannot play with, and my wife can use without my valuable specialist knowledge to help her, I feel so worthless. I have even stooped so low as to let her use the remote so that I don't lose any sleep about all the extra button presses I would be subject to.

All is not lost though, I can now concentrate on pulling Windows 10 to pieces to make it more like the old days, and I have even started to read some books. Plus I have a whole new list of things to worry about for the next 18 months, like ID theft and potential bank frauds.

Have fun and thanks again for the entertainment.
 
Black Hole said:
:dunno:

Do you also find £70 HDMI cables work better, and de-oxygenated palladium-plated speaker cables make a difference?
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It is possible Humax have succumbed to pressure from people that don't know any better and are applying unecessary sharpening to the 4000T picture. Some people think this looks better. I don't. Just a theory, I have no evidence.
 
Owen Smith said:
Given how rubbish the 4000T appears to be (no skip buttons, awful EPG, no HD recording export, silly power supply) I think I'll be giving it a miss. I've realised what I actually want is something with better streaming support to complement my HDR Fox T2 (which with custom firmware is almost perfect as a FreewView PVR, shame about the IP channel numbers). So that's what I'll probably get, something like a Roku 3. All I want is ITV and C4 catchup (real shame the HDR Fox T2 doesn't have them).
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And with almost perfect timing the Roku 4 has been launched, so I've ordered one. I don't have any 4K kit, but the optical audio output is new on this model and since my amp doesn't do HDMI audio in I may need optical (if the TV doesn't cooperate relaying HDMI to its optical out).
 
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