HDR Fox T2 File ts Editing

Well I can see your point about the Smart Cutter Website which also raised my suspicions but it was mentioned on VideoHelp.com and listed on Cnet downloads so I figured it wouldn't break anything (too much!!). But if actions speak louder than words... I put my HD Transformers recording into it - all 11gb and in it went without any significant delay at all. I immediately set to selecting the bits I wanted and adding them to the list - the guide on the website was clear enough for me - then outputted it back onto the hard disk in just 10 minutes and 47 seconds!! BTW I have a watermark at the beginning and I think they appear where the joins are. I'm waiting to copy it back onto the box to see how it comes out - a quick play in VLC on my laptop didn't sound quite right in some of the action scenes so will have to see how it fares on the box.

Also for me at least it does appear in the list of programs in the Start Menu, I take your point about putting it on the C: drive and multiple files (which I haven't tried yet) so maybe it's no good - but it's still the first thing outside of VRD Pus H264 that does HD files anything like as fast. I bet now the sound will be crap once I copy it over!! :( Still - ever the optimist...
 
Smart Cutter looks good to me! The UI is a bit of a mess but actually very easy to use. The "long range slider" and "short range slider" work very well together.

If you don't want to install it they do provide a Portable version which is a RAR file you can extract to anywhere and just run it from the .exe within.

I'm trying it out on my Billy Conolly Route 66 3.8GB TS file right now.
 
I managed to combine 2 files comprising 6 parts in total and it worked OK. I'm learning some of its idiosyncracies - when switching between multiple files, the main preview window stays blank until you switch to full screen and then back again, for example. However, I then loaded 2 different files, spent 15 minutes defining their 7 parts, and tried to save/combine. No luck - the program still wanted to use the previous 6-part set even though I'd closed and restarted it (necessary because there doesn't seem to be any way to start a new project or unload a file from within the UI). Has anyone found a way to get back to the file manager screen it starts in immediately after installation?

Really, although this works after a fashion, it is a seriously amateur and bug-ridden effort.
 
@fenlander my head knows you're right (I didn't get chance to check the audio yet on my test file) but I guess what I'm trying to do is make absolutely 100% totally sure that I don't shell out £60 and then find out there was an alternative that could do the job for less. And of course for everyone elses benefit our undergrowth hacking efforts might serve to guide those in the future as to what not to get!

I still need to test Smart Cutter on SD files as well - Freemake is totally good and useable and I am glad we have that in the bank in terms of tried and trusted - but it still doesn't output TS files by default and it still takes quite some time to save the edited files (and with the amount of kids shows I end up recording that amounts to a lot of waiting around). If I can find VRD's speed of saving for less money then at least I have some sort of choice (that's my heart urging me on there!!).
 
shevek said:
Smart Cutter looks good to me! The UI is a bit of a mess but actually very easy to use. The "long range slider" and "short range slider" work very well together.
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Have you noticed the "long long" range slider? It's under the thumbnail bar and has tiny +/- buttons on either size to adjust its range. Problem is the slider button seems to be absent most of the time and appears only at irregular intervals. I suspect it may be something to do with navigating multiple files.
 
Ref Smart Cutter - I've just checked my Transformers edit. Well it it looked and sounded pretty bloody good to me!! Took it through the Surround Amp, switched the Hummy to Multi Channel on the Audio output and set my Amp to 5.1 mode - yup the dog lifted his head to look at the rear speakers - audio test passed!! Skipped to the last 15 mins and lip sync was still fine. Stood close to the TV and quality looked good. I found the first cut point and it had a very slight judder - I had to to look at it twice to decide how bothered I was so it wasn't that bad.

So despite the website in broken English, a rough round the edges but functional GUI, a less than conventional install location, a mystery program that runs on first go but then never again, and no uninstall option - what I'm looking at is something that actually does the best job I've seen so far on HD recordings, edits at frame level, doesn't take hours to import or re-save and spits out TS files that look and sound as good as the original recording - and all for about £25. I'm gonna try it some more but in terms of meeting the scope of trimming recordings (inc HD) and putting a similar quality file back at the end of it I think it gets a tick.
 
In case it clears things up for anyone wanting to try it here is a quick guide for Smart Cutter:

Recorded Cats and Dogs - Standard Def - came in 2 parts (thanks again to Ch5 for splitting films with the news AND getting the AR wrong on Pt2!!)

Requirement : Top & tail and take out the adverts, join both halves and output one file for use on the Hummy and on a NAS drive.

Loaded first file. Use sliders to find start frame. The one directly under the preview window slides the frames backward and forwards (if you reach the end of the slider click the frame advance button or click on a frame to centre the slider. As well as the Frame Advance button I found a quicker way - on the frame view under the slider whichever frame you click on will become centred on the slider, so clicking the right most frame moves the clip along 4 frames in one click. I also used the "roller" for want of a better term - a grey circle with a white dot in it - you can rotate this with the mouse to roll the clip along or back to find the bit you want. Then just above the frame by frame viewer you have a slider that scrolls in larger chunks to help locate roughly where the ads or desired break point is, there's also an adjustable slider under the Frame viewer which you can adjust sensitivity with the + and - buttons at either end.

So, mark your start and end points of what you want to keep and click the 'add list' button. Do this for as many portions as required. If you scroll the list of cut points to the right it shows you the time indexes so you can check they're evenly spaced (i.e. you've probably got all the breaks).

For a single part recording you can skip this bit. Click the Open button again and add your second file. Repeat the editing process adding your 'keeper' sections to the cut list.

When all cuts are done make sure the 'Link' button is on (pseudo led on the Link button is lit yellow) and then click the 'Record List' button. Provide a file name as required and off it goes. It did the job in 6 minutes and 54 seconds.

I think this is worth a mention in a "Paid" section on our recommended list along with VRD (but I'll also include a note about the things we found re. the website, install location, odd program on first run (I system restored for another reason so loaded this again and grabbed a screenshot - it is a program listed on the website called Smart Mate for DV and DVB - harmless but worthless as far as I can tell!). Has anyone used this for editing any further since their last posts? In terms of the program itself is there any more feedback/findings etc?
 
oijonesey said:
I think this is worth a mention in a "Paid" section on our recommended list along with VRD
Click to expand...

So, did you pay for this? If so, have you found any particular added value?

I don't want to spoil the party on this one, but trying Smart Cutter has persuaded me to buy VRD! Ever since I edited my first 2-file set with Smart Cutter, it refuses to forget the files I used. I can't unload them or start a new 'project' - it just includes all the old files every time. I assume there's a config file somewhere that's not being updated properly, but I really can't be bothered to go and look for it. I can see that other users might want to check this out, but no way would I want to put it on a recommended list.
 
@fenlander - no not paid yet - as far as I know registering gets rid of the watermark but won't unlock anything new. I'm only punting Smart Cutter because a) in terms of the program itself it appears to do a good job and quickly and b) I hate not having a choice so I think it's just an option to put out there for people to choose from if they want HD capability but don't want to go as far as £60 for VRD. As I'd said I wouldn't list it without also putting all the invaluable stuff you found with the install etc so people would know what $99 dollars gets you vs $40

If Freemake was quicker with the TS files I wouldn't even be looking! ;) The funny thing is most of what I edit is actually SD (it's all kids shows most of the time!!). I also tried a 30 minute HD clip in Freemake today and chopped it down to 15 minutes and saved it back out but set the output options to the HD 1940 x 1080 preset on MP4 but changed the audio to AAC 5.1. It put out a pretty good file compared to the standard MP4 'same as original' setting I've been using up until now. It was slow though, it took about half an hour to save the 15 minute file. I'm going to try putting the Transformers film back through Freemake but give it as much time as it wants to import and absorb the file to get a full size true comparison. (BTW way I started watching it the other day - I now understand your comment about wetware, it is actually hard work to watch it!!).
 
In fact, I did look for the config file and I think I see what's happened. After initially installing SC and being horrified that it installed in C:\, I uninstalled and then reinstalled, forcing the install to C:\Program Files\Smart Cutter\. I was careful to remove all traces of the original installation, but now I'm finding two 'profile' folders - one in the location I installed to and one back in C:\. The settings in the config files in the \Program Files\Smart Cutter\ installation all point back to C:\, so I assume the config files are written wrongly at installation time. If you want this program to work properly, either let it install to C:\ or edit the config files to point to the right location.

Once again: BEWARE OF THIS SOFTWARE - it's a shambles!

@oijonesey - before you shell out £25 for SC, bear in mind that VRD Plus (SD only) is only £6 more. The two programs are chalk and cheese. I'm not sure whether the latest version of VRD+ will load Hummy .ts SD files - the very old copy I have won't. However, if I remux the file with tsMuxer first - which takes a few seconds - it loads and edits quite happily in VRD+. Hummy SD files are just MPEG2, not H264.

EDIT: Hm. Now I've got the config files pointing the right way, I think that the whole file browse/load system is working in an unusual manner. The File selection box at top left shows all the eligible media files in the working directory, not just files you have opened in the current project. To open one, use the Prev/Next buttons to select the file required, then click OPEN. A file browser pops up but is irrelevant unless you want to change folder, so just close it. Repeat for subsequent files. Odd, but it does work, I think.
 
Thanks Fenlander - I think you know by now I need a voice of reason to keep me in check!! :) You're absolutely right about chalk and cheese - but I just can't get past the fact that SmartCutter actually does a good job. It's like a guilty pleasure - I don't want to like it for all the reasons you list - but then I sit there and use it and it does what it says on the tin and does it quickly!! I've tried HD files in lots of programs in the course of this investigation and out of those that accept the files in native form (or indeed any form) this is the fastest one I've seen (even faster than VRD H264 in terms of loading and navigating the file).

Anyway, I want to make sure I get my caveats right so have you found this doing anything damaging? I only use AVG free and haven't had any warnings so it appears OK at this end and I don't think there's any malicious stuff in there, but I'd welcome a sense check if you (or Shevek?) have any other software protection running. I'm going to make careful notes and warnings that it has some unconventional quirks in the way it installs and link through to our investigatory posts just so people are aware before they make any choice.
 
No, I haven't found anything actually dangerous in it. I just find it extremely frustrating: I just tried joining segments from 3 files and it joined them in the wrong order. Also, the output file completely confused Splash's progress bar. Neither Splash nor VLC could display the duration of the output file and attempting free movement via the progress bar just caused Splash to lockup. I've now uninstalled it, so that's the last from me on this particular program!
I feel a huge sense of relief.
 
OK fenlander thanks for your help on this one, sorry I pushed it but I just want to try and make the findings as broadly investigated as I can. Promise not to hassle you (on Smart Cutter at least:)) again! Now, how are you with Linux? (I'm kidding...)
 
I have written up the findings in this Wiki page http://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Editing_HDR_Recordings as the first post character limit was reached. I am still going to continue my search for something that does VRD for free and keep using this thread to post the findings prior to anything making it onto the Wiki. I think there is going to be sections covering Converting as well as Re-Authoring so if anyone out there has any experiences of those?...
 
Out of interest, has anyone tried ProjectX? It seems to handle basic trimming and section cut-out quite well but produces separate video and audio files which need re-muxing..
 
I did have a look at it way back (on your recommendation I think) but even the notes on installing it seemed too complicated for a simpleton like me. Has it been simplified or are there easier to follow instructions than the readme file? I also wanted a "1 in / 1 out" solution - a bit like editing a Word doc - load it up, edit and save the changes all in one go. However if it outputs stuff quick enough and handles HD files then it might still be quicker than others we've tried even with the joining together of the audio and video. And of course if it has a winning price tag (i.e. free)...never say never and all that...
 
That's a nice summary. Interesting to see how many of the candidates had problems with audio. I had the same experience with Handbrake. The audio at the start of the file (the station lead-in) is in a different format from that in the main feature. If you convert - to .mp4 or .mkv, you often get audio on the lead-in but not on the main part of the file. If you can cut the lead-in before doing any conversion, the audio on the main feature is usually OK. There must be something very odd about the Hummy's audio output for it to confuse so many different converters and editors. Even .ts remuxers seem unable to identify the audio stream.

I continue to be annoyed by VideoReDo's sub-standard transcoding peformance. The only practical output from VRD is .ts, because recoding to .mp4 takes 2 to 3 times as long as Freemake and .mkv always fails right at the end of the save. It doesn't seem reasonable that a really good - and really expensive - program like VRD should not at least be able to match a freebie like Freemake in this respect.
 
fenlander said:
I continue to be annoyed by VideoReDo's sub-standard transcoding peformance. The only practical output from VRD is .ts, because recoding to .mp4 takes 2 to 3 times as long as Freemake and .mkv always fails right at the end of the save. It doesn't seem reasonable that a really good - and really expensive - program like VRD should not at least be able to match a freebie like Freemake in this respect.
Click to expand...

If you have H264 compliant footage then H264 .m2ts works fine. TMPG encoders are way better performance if you need to re-code.

If I need a quick AVCHD disc (30 min or so for single layer), join the clips, edit and output as .m2ts (If it's aac audio change output to mp2). Open the file in TSmuxergui. Output as AVCHD folder. Burn the resulting BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders to a DVD blank using IMGBURN. pop disc in blu-ray player and enjoy.
 
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