D
Deleted member 473
But what is the survival advantage of producing caffeine?
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- Thread starter Black Hole
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D
Deleted member 473
Call to halt marriage of 12‑year‑olds
Rhys Blakely, Washington
May 30 2017, 12:01am, The Times
Cassandra Levesque, a leading campaigner, wants a new age limit
State governments across the US are under growing pressure to overturn laws that allow thousands of children, some as young as 12, to be married each year.
American politicians have long denounced child marriage in the developing world as a human rights abuse, but few of the 50 states have a minimum age for marriage.
A study by Unchained at Last, a non-profit campaign group, reported several instances of 12-year-old girls being married in Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina. More than 167,000 Americans aged 17 and under — most of them girls — were married in 38 states between 2000 and 2010, according to a review of marriage licence data collated by the group. Most were between a girl and an adult man.
In some states marriage provides, in effect, a means to evade statutory rape laws. Sherry Johnson, from Florida, said she was 11 and pregnant when she found that she was to be married to a 20-year-old member of her conservative Pentecostal church who had raped her. “It was forced on me,” she told The New York Times. “My mom asked me if I wanted to get married, and I said, ‘I don’t know. What is marriage, how do I act like a wife?’ ” She went on to have nine children with her husband.
Ms Johnson has became a campaigner against child marriage, but efforts by herself and others to have age limits imposed have run into opposition. Chris Christie, the Republican New Jersey governor who ran for president last year, blocked a bill this month that would have made the state the first in the US to ban marriages involving people under 18.
In New York state a bill that would raise the age limit from 14 to 17 is under consideration.
A campaign to impose an age limit in New Hampshire was led by Cassandra Levesque, 17, a Girl Scout, after she learnt that the minimum age for a girl to marry in the state was 13. Sponsors of the legislation say that two girls aged 15 and one aged 13 have been married in the past five years. New Hampshire allows girls of 13 and boys of 14 to marry with the consent of a judge, if it is deemed that special circumstances are involved.
David Bates, a local Republican politician, was one of those who opposed the bill. “We’re asking the legislature to repeal a law that’s been on the books for over a century, that’s been working without difficulty, on the basis of a request from a minor doing a Girl Scout project,” he told reporters.
Rhys Blakely, Washington
May 30 2017, 12:01am, The Times
Cassandra Levesque, a leading campaigner, wants a new age limit
State governments across the US are under growing pressure to overturn laws that allow thousands of children, some as young as 12, to be married each year.
American politicians have long denounced child marriage in the developing world as a human rights abuse, but few of the 50 states have a minimum age for marriage.
A study by Unchained at Last, a non-profit campaign group, reported several instances of 12-year-old girls being married in Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina. More than 167,000 Americans aged 17 and under — most of them girls — were married in 38 states between 2000 and 2010, according to a review of marriage licence data collated by the group. Most were between a girl and an adult man.
In some states marriage provides, in effect, a means to evade statutory rape laws. Sherry Johnson, from Florida, said she was 11 and pregnant when she found that she was to be married to a 20-year-old member of her conservative Pentecostal church who had raped her. “It was forced on me,” she told The New York Times. “My mom asked me if I wanted to get married, and I said, ‘I don’t know. What is marriage, how do I act like a wife?’ ” She went on to have nine children with her husband.
Ms Johnson has became a campaigner against child marriage, but efforts by herself and others to have age limits imposed have run into opposition. Chris Christie, the Republican New Jersey governor who ran for president last year, blocked a bill this month that would have made the state the first in the US to ban marriages involving people under 18.
In New York state a bill that would raise the age limit from 14 to 17 is under consideration.
A campaign to impose an age limit in New Hampshire was led by Cassandra Levesque, 17, a Girl Scout, after she learnt that the minimum age for a girl to marry in the state was 13. Sponsors of the legislation say that two girls aged 15 and one aged 13 have been married in the past five years. New Hampshire allows girls of 13 and boys of 14 to marry with the consent of a judge, if it is deemed that special circumstances are involved.
David Bates, a local Republican politician, was one of those who opposed the bill. “We’re asking the legislature to repeal a law that’s been on the books for over a century, that’s been working without difficulty, on the basis of a request from a minor doing a Girl Scout project,” he told reporters.
EEPhil
Number 28
Whilst agreeing that this is a serious story and, if it was in the UK, would require a Yewtree type enquiry...
A polygamous, underage lesbian grouping?
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Legislation such as this is normally in place to prevent coercion or lack of capacity for informed consent. Sometimes such legislation is too draconian. In cases where there is free will and the subjects fully informed and considered, I see nothing wrong with it other than the challenge it presents to other people's perception of social norms.
Basing restrictive legislation purely on age is a blunt instrument, and can be just as invalid one way as the other.
Basing restrictive legislation purely on age is a blunt instrument, and can be just as invalid one way as the other.
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
And how do you make sure all the over-18s are? Like I said, a blunt instrument.
EEPhil
Number 28
Or even the current cabinet, or Corbyn, or Abbott...
Trev
The Dumb One
That's easy. They are not.
EEPhil
Number 28
If the under 18s, over 18s, and well-known politicians are not well-informed, then we are all up 
creek.
We, the uninformed, elect you - who know nothing - to take us in an unknown direction, at an unspecified cost - whilst removing some or more of our rights and benefits - based on the belief that you will do what it says in your manifesto, even though you may have u-turned or not costed your programme for government. Aaaaaargh!
creek.We, the uninformed, elect you - who know nothing - to take us in an unknown direction, at an unspecified cost - whilst removing some or more of our rights and benefits - based on the belief that you will do what it says in your manifesto, even though you may have u-turned or not costed your programme for government. Aaaaaargh!
D
Deleted member 473
EEPhil, you just got to understand democracy!
D
Deleted member 473
To say that age of consent is a blunt instrument, and therefore should not be used, is a dangerous route to take. Most civilized societies agree on an age because there is no other way to prevent vulnerable youngsters being exploited, coerced or abused. The US uses one for statutory rape, driving, alcohol, yet not for marriage, which is strange.
Rather a blunt instrument protecting the many, than a liberal view enabling the few to make bad choices.
Rather a blunt instrument protecting the many, than a liberal view enabling the few to make bad choices.
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OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
I didn't say it shouldn't be used, just that it's a blunt instrument!
MikeSh
Well-Known Member
Many laws are pretty blunt. Speed limits comes to mind. The problem is that anything better quickly gets complicated and expensive.
D
Deleted member 473
I suppose democracy is a blunt instrument, trial by jury even blunter. Then there are the blunt instruments of gcse, degree, management, gdp, to name but a few.
There is something odd about those state laws, as if maybe someone is protecting some ethnic group and its customs, or is it that child marriages were common in the USA in the pioneer days? Is it just simply that the USA is a nation of paedophiles, or possibly just their leaders?
There is something odd about those state laws, as if maybe someone is protecting some ethnic group and its customs, or is it that child marriages were common in the USA in the pioneer days? Is it just simply that the USA is a nation of paedophiles, or possibly just their leaders?
D
Deleted member 473
Can't believe Black Hole slipped in a free will based argument and I didn't notice.
Trev
The Dumb One
Think Jerry Lee Lewis in 1958. Age 22, three wives, third one 13 years old and his cousin (1st, once removed, (Daughter of a 1st cousin if you can't get your head around the 'removed' bit).
D
Deleted member 473
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MikeSh
Well-Known Member
If you think about it, before 'mass transport', ie. just a couple of hundred years ago, not marrying a not very distant relative was probably pretty hard. Likewise when life expectancy was about 40 waiting until 25 to start breeding wouldn't be a great idea - evolution made people fertile from a young age for a reason. All these modern laws and expectations are unfortunately several generations ahead of evolution, so there will always be a tension between what society deems acceptable and what (some/many) people's bodies think is 'right'.
