Ezra Pound
Well-Known Member
I guess your Humax had recently been turned on from cold as the HDD temperature is 24C, It looks like smartmontools is working O.K.
[sysmon] System Monitoring
- Thread starter af123
- Start date
D
Deleted member 473
Yes, no problem now. I only switched it on to update it and run sysmon, no idea why it took so long to start working.
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Perhaps it hadn't been running long enough to capture any data?
Ezra Pound
Well-Known Member
The sequence from cold is Fan full on at 55C, (Temperature starts falling) Half on at 52C, Quarter on at 49C off at 46C, (Temperature starts rising), Loop forever. I have a graph here :-
View attachment 146
OP
New version of sysmon uploaded. Still very much a work in progress!
The automatic summarisation (rollup) of data is working as is expiry and there are graphs covering different time spans now (still need sort out the labels on the bottom axis).
Added CPU utilisation graphs:
The automatic summarisation (rollup) of data is working as is expiry and there are graphs covering different time spans now (still need sort out the labels on the bottom axis).
Added CPU utilisation graphs:
David_Brown_UK
Member
Installed this last night. The graphs look brilliant on my BlackBerry Playbook.
Could you add a table that shows when the Hummy turns on and off, by detecting the time gaps in the logging database?
Could you add a table that shows when the Hummy turns on and off, by detecting the time gaps in the logging database?
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
I would like it to run over a longer timespan.
Ezra Pound
Well-Known Member
There are 3 graphs showing roughly 2 hours, 16 hours and 76 hours, Here is a 16 hour graph showing a half-awake period from 10:40 to 12:30
OP
Each dataset has three graphs at the moment, 2h (1 minute values), 24h (5 minute values) and 5d (15 minute values). I will add options later to show other time periods; this is still a work in progress and I'm struggling to find much time for it...
The database holds data at various granularities so:
I need to properly show the gaps in the data for when the box is off and that will naturally lead to a 'box on/off' graph.
The database holds data at various granularities so:
- Raw data which was captured every minute is kept for 24 hours;
- 5 minute data which was created from the raw data is kept for 5 days;
- 15 minute data which was created from the 5 minute data is kept for 10 days;
- hourly data which was created from the 15 minute data is kept for 15 days.
I need to properly show the gaps in the data for when the box is off and that will naturally lead to a 'box on/off' graph.
David_Brown_UK
Member
Great, thank you.
Ezra Pound
Well-Known Member
The Hard disk info. is obviously built into the hard disk and follows the S.M.A.R.T standard, as far as I'm aware no-one has any details of a CPU sensor, either an internal DTS sensor (Broadcom BMIPS4380 CPU), or an external thermistor on/near the CPU
Thankyou. That is pretty much as I thought. Not to worry. My reason is quite obscure in that I've externally mounted the HDD and would ideally like proof that the airflow from my modified fan is enough (or even if it is necessary at all, given the drive isn't there creating heat). I'm reasonably confident it is, but it's difficult to be absolutely certain.
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
The HD-FOX relies on passive cooling, although it has a bit less electronics and a ventilated (but smaller) case.
Ezra Pound
Well-Known Member
There is a very good chance that the fan has a built-in thermistor, but again we have no info. whether it is connected to anything, I suppose you could measure the resistance of it yourself, actually, having though about it, if you were going to measure the resistance of a thermistor, It would be better to attach your own to the CPU
EDIT
We are not sure if the HDR uses the HDD temperature to control the fan or some other sensor. Could I ask if you know how often the fan turns on (if at all) in your 'External HDD' set-up and what does the sysmon graph look like on from your HDD?
@BH: That's interesting & something I hadn't thought about. Can you explain how the ventilation works (my quick Google images came up with a few different models and it wasn't immediately clear). I'm assuming some sort of slots/holes on top?
@EP: Actually I assumed it must be determined from the HDD temp given the consistent results (ie. 55/56 degree = on full etc.). I did a few independent tests that confirmed what had been reported here. In my final arrangement the HDD never exceeds 36 degrees so I concluded a fan would never run and therefore connected one inline with the HDD power instead.
My understanding of three wire fans as used on the factory model is power+/- and rotation speed feedback and I was unable to find any information from the manufacturers website (looks like a custom part). However, I used a different fan so there's nothing stopping me from plugging the original back in to the motherboard to be sure.
@EP: Actually I assumed it must be determined from the HDD temp given the consistent results (ie. 55/56 degree = on full etc.). I did a few independent tests that confirmed what had been reported here. In my final arrangement the HDD never exceeds 36 degrees so I concluded a fan would never run and therefore connected one inline with the HDD power instead.
My understanding of three wire fans as used on the factory model is power+/- and rotation speed feedback and I was unable to find any information from the manufacturers website (looks like a custom part). However, I used a different fan so there's nothing stopping me from plugging the original back in to the motherboard to be sure.
Ezra Pound
Well-Known Member
There are a few things to concider :-
1) Most of the heat in the HDR comes from the HDD and the 'HD' model has no fan at all
2) Connecting up the original fan (I'm guessing ) it won't come on because :-
2a) The sensor controlling it is in the HDD and it never gets to 55C or
2b) It uses another sensor but most of the heat has gone away because of 1) above
3) The big unknown is the CPU, I havent found any data on it's Max. running temperature or how much power it takes
You would have to measure the CPU's temperature directly, putting it crudely, how hot does it feel after a couple of hours?
1) Most of the heat in the HDR comes from the HDD and the 'HD' model has no fan at all
2) Connecting up the original fan (I'm guessing ) it won't come on because :-
2a) The sensor controlling it is in the HDD and it never gets to 55C or
2b) It uses another sensor but most of the heat has gone away because of 1) above
3) The big unknown is the CPU, I havent found any data on it's Max. running temperature or how much power it takes
You would have to measure the CPU's temperature directly, putting it crudely, how hot does it feel after a couple of hours?
For the most part I agree. I'm 99% certain it is using the HDD sensor. Partly because of the direct correlation of fan speed to SMART temp which I don't think would be so exact otherwise given there are other heat sources. Partly because the HDD 'cradle' and bottom ventilation slots appear to be designed to focus most of the airflow on removing heat from the HDD (although there do seem to be deliberate side openings to take some PSU and CPU away). And partly because it would be the easiest way - ie. 'cheers for the sensor Seagate, that'll save us having to put one in'.
With no fan and no HDD I do still get a reasonable build up of heat in the unit (sides/top warm to touch). Now I know this is definitely not all generated entirely by the Humax as it does unfortunately sit on top of an AV receiver which passively ventilates through slots in the top and therefore directly into the Humax inlet. But the PSU and CPU do still generate a fair amount on their own. No slots on top prevent any natural dissipation (save for simple conduction through the steel), whereas I get the impression the HD does have some slottage which would be all it needs.
Regarding 'crude' measurements, well, the tiny heatsink feels rather hot. But then it does regardless of configuration really. And checking anything in this way is mostly complicated by the fact that you have to take the lid off to feel, but have the lid and unit in place to properly test etc. At this point I may as well mention for anyone curious that I did initially perform tests with HDD in place and fan disconnected. With the HDD under load for approx 1hr the temps levelled out around 66-67degrees. While Seagate says that one of the particular advantages of these drives are high temp capability (75 case max), I can tell you that 66 is scarily hot to the touch and I was not comfortable with this (neither was my finger).
For clarity I should explain that if I simply run the new fan at the minimum speed that it will actually start then the case does run cold and I'm confident this is better than factory. But unfortunately this is still a bit too loud and the only way I've found to reduce the level is to restrict the exhaust airflow at which point we find the case gets warm again. It's hard to say whether this is any better than no fan at all and that I am going round in circles chasing an impossible goal. Thus my question. While I could find a way to measure before/after/with/without fan temps I think it that is probably one bridge too far (as opposed to just comparing my CPU temp to someone elses in factory config.). Similarly I could machine passive ventilation into the top cover but this is difficult to do neatly and is quite obviously irreversible. All the mods I have made otherwise are neat and entirely reversible.
The only thing I haven't investigated is some sort of (small) fan speed controller that will intelligently start on full speed before reducing to a quieter speed. Maybe even with thermal sensors etc. I will probably need to check my sanity first though.
(Incidentally everything I'm posting here now is really just for information if anyone's interested. In case you're confused what exaclty it is that I'm asking!)
With no fan and no HDD I do still get a reasonable build up of heat in the unit (sides/top warm to touch). Now I know this is definitely not all generated entirely by the Humax as it does unfortunately sit on top of an AV receiver which passively ventilates through slots in the top and therefore directly into the Humax inlet. But the PSU and CPU do still generate a fair amount on their own. No slots on top prevent any natural dissipation (save for simple conduction through the steel), whereas I get the impression the HD does have some slottage which would be all it needs.
Regarding 'crude' measurements, well, the tiny heatsink feels rather hot. But then it does regardless of configuration really. And checking anything in this way is mostly complicated by the fact that you have to take the lid off to feel, but have the lid and unit in place to properly test etc. At this point I may as well mention for anyone curious that I did initially perform tests with HDD in place and fan disconnected. With the HDD under load for approx 1hr the temps levelled out around 66-67degrees. While Seagate says that one of the particular advantages of these drives are high temp capability (75 case max), I can tell you that 66 is scarily hot to the touch and I was not comfortable with this (neither was my finger).
For clarity I should explain that if I simply run the new fan at the minimum speed that it will actually start then the case does run cold and I'm confident this is better than factory. But unfortunately this is still a bit too loud and the only way I've found to reduce the level is to restrict the exhaust airflow at which point we find the case gets warm again. It's hard to say whether this is any better than no fan at all and that I am going round in circles chasing an impossible goal. Thus my question. While I could find a way to measure before/after/with/without fan temps I think it that is probably one bridge too far (as opposed to just comparing my CPU temp to someone elses in factory config.). Similarly I could machine passive ventilation into the top cover but this is difficult to do neatly and is quite obviously irreversible. All the mods I have made otherwise are neat and entirely reversible.
The only thing I haven't investigated is some sort of (small) fan speed controller that will intelligently start on full speed before reducing to a quieter speed. Maybe even with thermal sensors etc. I will probably need to check my sanity first though.
(Incidentally everything I'm posting here now is really just for information if anyone's interested. In case you're confused what exaclty it is that I'm asking!)
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Yes, about 90% of the top area has an array of holes in it.