a place for general chat

[EEPhil]

Keep having referendums until you get the answer that you want.

If they don't like the answer, they shouldn't have asked the question. Unfortunately (at least for a remainer like me) the question was asked, and we got an answer by the rules that were set at the time. Too late to moan about the people eligible to vote, whether a simple majority or perhaps a 67% majority was required, or whether multiple questions should have been put. Cleggy, like Bliar, should now be quiet. The people have spoken - however narrowly. Just get on with it! Oh they can't, too much bickering in the cabinet. Weak and wobbly May should have carried on without the recent election, then we might actually be getting somewhere.

 

[af123]

The 6/.8 group can be identified (well, by pseudonym anyway) so it is known how many votes the 6/8 have, but was it a group of 14 or a group of one 14 times.

It was 14 separate members, including some who had posted in the thread.

 

[MontysEvilTwin]

If they don't like the answer, they shouldn't have asked the question. Unfortunately (at least for a remainer like me) the question was asked, and we got an answer by the rules that were set at the time. Too late to moan about the people eligible to vote, whether a simple majority or perhaps a 67% majority was required, or whether multiple questions should have been put. Cleggy, like Bliar, should now be quiet. The people have spoken - however narrowly. Just get on with it! Oh they can't, too much bickering in the cabinet. Weak and wobbly May should have carried on without the recent election, then we might actually be getting somewhere.

I agree with you. I think leaving the EU is a bad idea which has already damaged Sterling and is now starting to damage industry in the UK. I don't think the referendum can be ignored though so we are stuck with it. One thing that puzzles me relates to the question which was asked in the referendum:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?’
‘Remain a member of the European Union’
‘Leave the European Union’

From the question that was asked, how can anyone conclude that we must leave the customs union or the single market? Who even knew about the customs union when they voted? Turkey is in the customs union, Norway is in the single market: neither are EU members. People voted for brexit for a variety of reasons. Arguments like 'we must leave the customs union so that we can do our own trade deals' and 'we must leave the single market so that we can control immigration from the EU' are irrelevant. Some people may want these things but as neither were mentioned in the referendum question, it is not possible to conclude that we are committed to leaving either based on the vote.

 

[Ezra Pound]

EDIT - Some, (but not all of Trev's posts have been removed from this thread, this was not done at my request and although I can see the logic behind this, it does make it difficult explain the remaining posts.

I don't have Trev's question to me, however, he asked me to explain the comments posted in my post (renumbered as #39), this is my reply

af123 from #2 :I've received messages from 14 separate members about the content in this thread

Ezra Pound from #17 :From one, ( Yes only one), of the 14

Trev from #31 :but was it a group of 14 or a group of one 14 times

As I am the only person to admit to being one of the group of 14 and you are asking if there was a "group of one 14 times", you can only be referring to me, af123 has stated that there were 14 separate members, so for any single user to send all 14 messages would require him / her to have 14 logins to this forum, if you were referring to any of the other 13 members, there could not be a group of one could there?

 

[Ezra Pound]

EDIT - Some, (but not all of Trev's posts have been removed from this thread, this was not done at my request and although I can see the logic behind this, it does make it difficult explain the remaining posts.

Here is Trev's original #51 post

It's hard for me to see how #31 was meant to be a jest, it's too easy to make an accusation and then when questioned, say I was only jolking

 

[Deleted member 473]

I was one of the 14. From his post here, which I doubt you even read, I assume selectortone was another.

 

[Deleted member 473]

This is nothing to do with being PC, Trev, that was just a sophistry invented to try to justify the behaviour of the protagonists.

 

[Ezra Pound]

EDIT - Some, (but not all of Trev's posts have been removed from this thread, this was not done at my request and although I can see the logic behind this, it does make it difficult explain the remaining posts.

I don't have Trev's post to me, but he claimed I had called him a liar

No-one is calling you a liar, the worst you are being accused of is saying any old garbage you fancy and then pretending you didn't mean it when someone objects, the things you say on-line do have consequences, even if they are formulated in the comfort of your own home

 

[Black Hole]

Here we go again: what offends one person may not offend another, and why should anybody think that what offends them in particular should automatically not be permitted, even less when they are offended by proxy (simply the assumption that somebody else might be offended)? Offence is minor - develop a harder skin. It's abuse (use of offensive language in a targeted manner) we should not permit.

Everything I posted previously (and has been excised) was intentionally illustrative of this principle. Everyone who couldn't see that and complained about it is illustrative of the problem.

 

[Deleted member 473]

The N word is offensive in ANY context. So is your homophobic attitude.

 

[Wallace]

Time to lock this tread IMHO.

 

[Ezra Pound]

It was time to lock it before the the recent removal of posts, it seems that if I fancied calling somebody a racist, homophobic, sexist, elitist bigot, I could do that and then just get the post removed, (or force the administrators / moderators into deciding it was best removed), when the person objected and there would be no record of my post

 

[RobH1]

I note General chat has gone AWOL.

 

[EEPhil]

Yes, it's looking like a dead thread. It is no more. It's gone to meet it's maker. It has ceased to be. Unless, of course, it's just resting.

 

[Black Hole]

I've lost interest, if unfettered debate has been banned (or shouted down).

I am offended by the term "bigot", by the way - one man's bigot is another man's freedom fighter! It's a question of which particular opinion has the greatest currency at the time (and is therefore entirely arbitrary).

 

[Deleted member 473]

I have forgotten what all this was about. It was before my accident.

 

[Black Hole]

I'd forgotten this thread even existed, until you posted in it again.

 

[EEPhil]

Ditto.

 

[Black Hole]

I notice a certain somebody has changed their forum persona.

 

[RobH1]

I saw that too, perhaps he thinks it might not be noticed.