Assume v. Presume

Mike0001 said:
It's officially MOT!
But surely it should be DfT or DVLA?
Click to expand...
Wasn't that my point at https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/assume-v-presume.1453/page-118#post-104904 ?
antipodean said:
Where I come from it would be a WoF (Warrant of Fitness).
Click to expand...
But would you say you WoF your car? You might say your car has a WoF.

Even dafter than MoT/MOT or DfT or DVLA applying to motor vehicles (where the origin of the term has some meaning) is the concept of a health MOT. Health check-up?
 
Why do medics call themselves doctors? They only have an undergraduate degree, unlike us!:o_O::whistling:

And why is that monstrosity Dr. so common, when there is no need for the stop?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mike0001 said:
Why do medics call themselves doctors? They only have an undergraduate degree, unlike us!:o_O::whistling:

And why is that monstrosity Dr. so common, when there is no need for the stop?
Click to expand...
I agree with all of that.
However, I think most UK medics probably do enough training to be awarded an MD at some stage. They shouldn't call themselves doctor until they get an MD. Don't the US and Canada follow this route. Why don't we? And don't get me started on dentists calling themselves doctor...
Dr.:mad: (ditto Mr., Mrs.) If you must indicate the abbreviation it would be D'r - urgh! You would think the BBC would get this one right - but they don't. American English seems to use Dr. as standard. Also seems to be the case in Germany. (Exit from EU warning: It appears that if you have a PhD or MD or DPhil then, at present in Germany, you could call yourself Herr Dr. Fred Bloggs [sic]. US holders of PhD's etc. may not - it is a criminal offence for non EU citizens to use the title in Germany! After we leave the EU, we will probably fall foul of the same law)
 
In Germany "Engineer" is also a reserved title - they don't have 'Heating Engineer' on the side of plumbers' vans.
 
That cuts both ways. I'm most definitely an engineer, but as I don't have an engineering degree or belong to an engineering trade body I wouldn't be able to call myself one in Germany.
 
Black Hole said:
That cuts both ways. I'm most definitely an engineer, but as I don't have an engineering degree or belong to an engineering trade body I wouldn't be able to call myself one in Germany.
Click to expand...

You most definitely are not an engineer then if you don't have the degree or affiliation!

Could you be a Techniker, Ingenieur, Maschinist or Lokführer?

This whole story sounds as daft as when Indiana legislated the value of π!

http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=30214

Legislate who is or is not a doctor? Humbug!
 
Black Hole said:
Obviously not in Germany, but here I held down an electronics design job with a physics degree...
Click to expand...
That's the stupid thing about it! The idea that you can be as good as you like at a job, but can't use the job title, because some jobsworth decides that. When I was involved in lecturing a module on the courses, the only difference between a computer science degree and a software engineering degree was a bureaucratic committee!
 
Mike0001 said:
That's the stupid thing about it! The idea that you can be as good as you like at a job, but can't use the job title, because some jobsworth decides that.
Click to expand...
It's just a case of needing to draw a line somewhere. Would you be happy if anyone could (legally) set up a surgery and call themselves a doctor without the oversight of an institution to say they are genuine/competent?
I was an IEng for some years but I did have to prove to 'a bureaucratic committee' that I was (probably) worthy of that acknowledgement - it wasn't just a case of having the qualifications, it was showing relevant experience and current practice. I let it lapse and if I tried to renew it now I doubt they'd let me back in - rightly so as I've been out of touch and practice for about 10 years.

Yes, I know there are exceptions to competency in both directions (those in who aren't any good and those out who are good), but at least there is some control. It's like most laws - they are useful most of the time ... :)
 
The difference is that an engineer isn't (generally) in a situation of blind trust where they might kill/maim/poison somebody.
 
Exactly what BH said. A doctorate is too wide a category to lay the law down about whether some country recognizes it and makes a criminal offence depend on it. Think of a DPhil in pottery, media studies, etc. Are they really so dangerous if impersonated? And it isn't even a case of that here, people had valid higher degrees and yet were still pursued by the law.

In the case I mentioned, being or not being an engineer was a vacuous distinction, a piece of paper and an expensive subscription to a dubious society.

Given the clear distinction between levels of worth of degrees between institutions, easily verifiable, I should have thought the witch hunt could be extended...
 
The guy who comes to put up your Sky dish is only an engineer if he is down on his luck and working as an installer to get by.
 
Far too narrow a definition! If you want to narrow the definition of a term, why not choose a new term instead? Other established usages are far too ingrained to just dismiss like that.

Indigestion is now "defined" as dyspepsia! No it isn't! Look in your dictionary, ffs. Similarly for "engineer."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
He would be an engineer if he had sat down to work out exactly what was needed, how configured, and method of installation, before actually going out to do the job (even us engineers like to get our hands dirty from time to time; building prototypes was a bit of a speciality of mine).

Picking up Sky in the middle of the beam footprint is a monkey job; doing it from outside the footprint takes an engineer.
 
There's more to satellite than Sky. Are you talking about aiming the dish at certain satellites, Astra, Eutelsat? That has nothing to do with Sky, much to do with SES.

(This is the finicky thread, after all! :))
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mike0001 said:
In the case I mentioned, being or not being an engineer was a vacuous distinction, a piece of paper and an expensive subscription to a dubious society.
Click to expand...
Even if you can get into that society in the first place. Because I didn't have a degree from a recognised engineering course, when I did (many years later) investigate joining the IEE it was all going to be too difficult (it would have been straightforward if I had taken the admissions programme during my first few years of professional work). I still had a possible route to chartership at that time, but then the rules got ratcheted up so the bar was even higher... can't be bothered now, the annual fee would be a waste, and I can't foresee needing the professional credentials except for bragging rights. I'm even giving up my Mensa membership when it comes up for renewal; my interests lie elsewhere and my money would be better used that way.

Mike0001 said:
(This is the finicky thread, after all! :))
Click to expand...
Gomezz started it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top