Coronavirus Lockdown Chat

Another BBC news farce: From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53337170
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"Diners will get a 50% discount off their restaurant bill during August under government plans to bolster the embattled hospitality sector."

How are these diners managing to drink their wine?(No discount) How are they going to eat their meal? 100% off if they carry on as they are. And stop playing with your mask. You now need to wash your hands, remove the mask, wash your hands, put a fresh mask on, and then wash your hands. And that's before they all have to wash their hands, take the masks off, wash their hands and eat their dinner. (Also, I read that masks don't work very well with beards).

Wrong picture to go with the story - in my opinion.
 
I was led to believe that masks to virus is roughly equivalent to chain link fencing and flies.
 
Trev said:
I was led to believe that masks to virus is roughly equivalent to chain link fencing and flies.
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More like 6' panel fencing and flies - they can't go through (except by quantum tunnelling), but will be carried around in the breeze.
 
Hang on a mo. Here's the facts wot I looked up before banging on about it.
N95 respirators filter out stuff down to 0.3 microns. The coronavirus is between 0.05 and 0.2 microns so won't be stopped by and N95.
An N95 respirator is pretty good and better that the 'medical' face masks and probably a hell of a lot better than home made face masks.
So Go climb your fence, whilst I walk through the gate. :roflmao: :duel:
 
Face coverings are to stop you spitting droplets, particularly while talking to people.
A contaminated droplet, or aerosol, can carry thousands of virus and have a high infection risk.
Few masks will prevent individual virus particles that can be exhaled passing but the concentration of them is very low - you need to be near the source for a long time to breath enough for them to become a risk (unless you have a compromised immune system).

Restaurants, cinemas, transport are high risk because you can be in a contaminated area for a long time.
I have no concerns going to the supermarket and passing within a foot of other people because it's only for seconds and I don't speak to them, and is a large space. But I won't be sitting in any restaurants for a while yet, much as I'd like to.
 
Ditto.

In any case, a "naked" virus will probably have dried out and become inactive. Micro-droplets are much bigger than a virus.

It surprises me that this is a surprise. I have always taken it as a presumption that micro-droplets are what we really have to worry about, hence the ridiculous idea that non-sealing face masks are much use. All they do for me is steam up my glasses.

It seems to me the calculation / testing required is how micro-droplets spread (an easy target for modern fluid dynamics simulation, I would have thought) and how long it takes a micro-droplet to evaporate under specific conditions of temperature and humidity.
 
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Black Hole said:
It seems to me the calculation / testing required is how micro-droplets spread (an easy target for modern fluid dynamics simulation, I would have thought) and how long it takes a micro-droplet to evaporate under specific conditions of temperature and humidity.
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I think this is the nub. There seems to be relatively little solid research/knowledge about this type of transfer *.
What I think seems to be gaining traction is the idea that this virus is perhaps more robust than previous examples like flu or SARS, and it can therefore remain viable for longer in the air.

* One thing I noticed in the early stages of this, months ago, was that our understanding of transmission of even things as common as colds and flus was very slim and mostly began with "It is thought that ... " or similar. I expect more money may get thrown at this subject now.
 
peterworks said:
@Black Hole - A candidate for SAGE ?
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TBH, I think I could do a better job for less money. Scientists are, by definition, non-committal, and don't know how to communicate science to non-scientists. It is the job of politicians to work out how to apply scientific knowledge to real life, balanced with other demands such as raising the money, but our politicians want to avoid decisions so as not to have to answer for them. They have no scientific training, so have no idea how nuanced science is or how to apply it properly. Heck, most many of them can't even add up.
 
Black Hole said:
TBH, I think I could do a better job for less money.
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You very well might. If you ask the right questions.
I've noticed a complete lack of good scientific argument and robust journalism on the subject.
We get a former chief scientific advisor (physical chemist and head of independent SAGE), a behaviourist, and head of Royal Society (structral biologist [eh?]) giving their views - on covid 19 - without proper scrutiny. Quite often there is reference to some paper or other in a medical journal that has not been peer reviewed, and yet it is referenced as being fact. Then there is that open letter by 200+ scientists. Very good, except many of the scientists have no medical background (environmental/mechanical/civil engineers, chemists & architects) and the published paper is "invited commentary". I get the impression some of the players are just enjoying the publicity it gives them (independent SAGE).
Black Hole said:
many of them can't even add up.
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I only hope Rishi Sunak can.
 
EEPhil said:
I get the impression some of the players are just enjoying the publicity it gives them (independent SAGE).
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Cynical me wonders if some have invested in companies that would benefit from whatever action is being lobbied for.
Is there anyone we can really trust (in authority) these days?
 
So the main advantage of any sort of face covering is to prevent you giving anybody else a dose then, and NOT you catching a dose then. rhet (I already knew that)
So why do all these idiot walking/cycling about on their own in the wide open spaces hope to gain by wearing one?
As it stands, I believe the 'advice' is to 'wear a face covering when in an enclosed space where social distancing cannot be observed'. (That obviously includes public transport/ taxis etc). Or have they changed it in the last couple of hours.

Re Douglas Adams. Not a quote by him, but a damn fine follow up or perhaps the reason for his statement "Anyone given any sort of power over others will always, always, always abuse it"
 
Trev said:
As it stands, I believe the 'advice' is to 'wear a face covering when in an enclosed space where social distancing cannot be observed'. (That obviously includes public transport/ taxis etc). Or have they changed it in the last couple of hours.
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AFAIK that is the current advice, yes.

Trev said:
So why do all these idiot walking/cycling about on their own in the wide open spaces hope to gain by wearing one?
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A very good question. I've never had the courage to ask any of them.
There are people out there who believe that just one virion is enough to infect you, and some of them probably think a 'surgical' mask is the answer.
 
Trev said:
So why do all these idiot walking/cycling about on their own in the wide open spaces hope to gain by wearing one?
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I though I saw some advice that said it could even be dangerous to wear one whilst exercising. But I can't find it now - and the CDC recommends wearing face coverings whilst working out. Hmm - anyone got a spare oxygen sats monitor?

Talking of idiots - the number of people wearing face coverings in Morrisons is increasing. My estimate is 50%. Are people confusing England with Scotland?
Anyway, two older people with masks wandering about. Mrs older person decided to pick up every bag of parsnips, look at them and put them back. I wanted some parsnips for Sunday lunch. Sod that, I thought, and bought a celeriac instead. It's all very well people thinking they are being a good citizen by wearing a mask (I have my doubts). But if they took proper notice of the advice they wouldn't be handling every bag, with a better chance of spreading the virus than going about unmasked.
 
I notice Boris is considering making face coverings mandatory in shops. Those same shops that have not required them for the last 3 months. And then you have the head of the Royal Society popping up again with a smirk on his face brandishing a mask. There was an interview in the last couple of days with one of the deputy CMOs (Jenny Harries) who said she was aware of Venki's opinion (head of RS), but she was against this as she has a hearing problem and relies on lip-reading sometimes. Never mind that I can't breathe properly at the best of times (can't prove it, so difficult to claim exemption) and I'm sure wearing a muzzle isn't going to improve things. Given all the briefings going on, I can see we'll all be wearing them in a week or two. I wonder if the bank will let me in? "Is that a shot gun in your pocket or are you just pleased..." [just to annoy Trev!]
 
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Isn't this on the advice of PHE ? You know, that outfit that has got pretty much everything wrong so far.
 
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