Media mistakes

From my local online newspaper (about requiring the conversion of analogue to digital telephone services):
Openreach said:
... the shift from copper to fibre will be as significant as the move from analogue to digital and black and white TV to colour.
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Don't think black and white to colour TV was significant. It was the standards change from 405 to 625 lines that was important. In theory you could still be watching in b&w.
 
I certainly don't think the change to fibre is significant for telephone users. Most of them use mobiles already so are well used to digital telephony. The change is only significant from the industry's pov - and maybe the disruption to the consumer during the changeover.
 
MikeSh said:
Most of them use mobiles already so are well used to digital telephony.
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A survey of GenZs said many of them have never even seen a landline, so are they consuming their Internet entirely over 4/5G? Perhaps, but the ISPs don't like it is you then try to network your whole household through a hot-spot.

MikeSh said:
I certainly don't think the change to fibre is significant for telephone users.
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You don't? Wait until there's a power outage (possibly even an arranged power outage) and you can't call for help because there's a fire or you're being burgled or you've had a heart attack.

The issue is not that the digital services aren't satisfactory under normal circumstances, it's that they are not resilient if there is another stress in the system (when the circumstances are not normal).
 
MikeSh said:
maybe the disruption to the consumer during the changeover.
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Nobody seems to care about the consumer. We now have the ridiculous situation that converting your line to fibre (whether TTP or TTC) ceases the phone service and you lose the number. Alternatively, porting the number to a VoIP provider ceases the broadband (and thus kills the data connection that the VoIP relies on).
You would have thought that the industry could have come up with something better than this. I mean, all those top people paid effing massive bonuses and this is the best they can come up with. Pathetic. And it all seems to be because a broadband circuit is inextricably linked to a phone number, even when you can no longer use that phone number for phone calls.
#UselessBritain ought to be a thing if it isn't already.
 
prpr said:
We now have the ridiculous situation that converting your line to fibre (whether TTP or TTC) ceases the phone service and you lose the number.
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The information I've seen is that you will be able to port your existing number.
The reality at present seems to be what is supported by your provider* but hopefully that will improve.
Our copper is adequate for our current needs. If we changed to fibre now we'd need a new router and I can see a real possibility of then needing another one a couple of years after that, so I'm waiting until things are much more settled.

* The fibre to our road is Giganet and they don't offer any voice service "at present", so they send you to a 3rd party supplier if you need it now.
 
Black Hole said:
You don't? Wait until there's a power outage (possibly even an arranged power outage) and you can't call for help
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We've been in that situation for years already. Wireless handsets off a mains powered base station. I'm sure we are not alone in that and probably part of a majority.
I expect sales of battery backed router systems will be good.
 
Black Hole said:
not resilient if there is another stress in the system (when the circumstances are not normal).
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This. It's the same with boilers. We used to have pilot lights. They replaced them with electronic ignition to save gas (I'd be interested to know how significant that tiny amount was) and added various electronic circuitry and display panels. So now whenever we have a power cut the boiler goes off and as well as no lights we freeze to death in the dark :mad:.
 
Black Hole said:
, but the ISPs don't like it is you then try to network your whole household through a hot-spot.
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Tough! That's what I'm doing. (Slightly more complicated than that, but essentially true.) Of course, with no landline what else can I do? (Some workmen knocked the copper wire down and Openreach wouldn't repair it, so I told BT to Foxtrot Oscar)
 
Wildebeest said:
So now whenever we have a power cut the boiler goes off and as well as no lights we freeze to death in the dark :mad:.
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Even back in the power cuts of the 70s it was the same. The controller and pump ran off electricity then as well, so the boiler wasn't gonna work.
Lights was "a candle stuck to a saucer". Nowadays it's probably an LED head (or hand) torch. Much safer.
MikeSh said:
I expect sales of battery backed router systems will be good.
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I've had a UPS on mine for the best part of 20 years. Of course you need to keep on top of replacing the batteries every few years.
 
I have just been converted to FTTP and have retained my old BT number. This seems to be standard with most service providers nowadays.
The old land line had become unreliable and periodically noisy,even though the connection under the pavement outside had been recently dug up and renewed,in an effort to fix it.
I told them not to bother as I was about to go FTTP, but they went ahead regardless. A month later they dug a new hole to connect the fibre!
 
MikeSh said:
We've been in that situation for years already. Wireless handsets off a mains powered base station. I'm sure we are not alone in that and probably part of a majority.
Click to expand...
You don't have a normal corded phone on hand, in case of emergency?

You might have been in that situation for years, but that's lack of preparedness and you could have taken measures. The point is that POTS over copper is operated by batteries at the exchange (or the equivalent), and maintains service through emergency generators if necessary.

Fibre requires power to be supplied at the consumer end (so you're paying for it instead of them) and, unless you invest in (or are provided with) a UPS, your phone dies when the lights go out. The phone also dies if a storm takes out the power lines for days on end and the UPS runs out of battery.

Ditto the mobile network.

As for porting: there have been many reports of total disaster in that arena, and an elderly person of my acquaintance has declined in health because of it. She had no service for weeks, and so far as I know ended up with a different phone number.

The technical implementation is also flawed. The fibre terminal at the consumer end has a socket into which a POTS phone can be plugged, so the socket must be mimicking a phone line (albeit with VOIP on the other side). So, why exactly can't the phone-interfaced alarms and emergency call units continue to work? What inadequacy of the POTS interface is causing that?
 
Black Hole said:
You don't have a normal corded phone on hand, in case of emergency?
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Used to, but now we have 3 mobiles between us there isn't the need.
Black Hole said:
You might have been in that situation for years, but that's lack of preparedness and you could have taken measures.
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Yes, see above.

Black Hole said:
The phone also dies if a storm takes out the power lines for days on end and the UPS runs out of battery.
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Black Hole said:
Ditto the mobile network.
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True, but then you are into disaster scenarios if more than a few people are affected and other responses will happen.
It's like our supposed lack of ability to deal with snow, but it's really just that the frequency of the problem being that significant doesn't warrant the cost of being 99% prepared all the time.
The cost of maintaining the PSTN and it's limitations mean it has now reached the same point of cost-benefit.

Black Hole said:
The technical implementation is also flawed.
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The seem to be a number of systems at present so there is obviously development going on (as one would hope or expect). Another reason I'm not jumping in for now - let the early adopters find the bugs and gotchas.
 
MikeSh said:
but then you are into disaster scenarios if more than a few people are affected and other responses will happen.
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:rolling: Ask the people without power for weeks after storm whats-his-face whether "other responses" happened!

There's not enough to go around in a major event, so best you can cope without.

The telecoms network used to be national infrastructure serving a national need. It should never have been privatised, but having been privatised Government should regulate what is allowed be done with it so as not to jeopardise it serving the national need – eg in times of war when an enemy might easily knock out a digital system but would find analogue comms more resilient.

If BT/OpenReach finds it too expensive maintaining an analogue system, they shouldn't have taken it on. I'm sure the directors/shareholders have had enough profit from it, now they should put their hands in their pockets.
 
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Wildebeest said:
This. It's the same with boilers. We used to have pilot lights. They replaced them with electronic ignition to save gas (I'd be interested to know how significant that tiny amount was) and added various electronic circuitry and display panels. So now whenever we have a power cut the boiler goes off and as well as no lights we freeze to death in the dark :mad:.
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between 594 and 2475 kWh per annum Google tells me (other www search engines are available)
 
prpr said:
Nowadays it's probably an LED head (or hand) torch. Much safer.
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Yes massively better: safe, and compared to the old torches much brighter and the batteries last far longer, and are often rechargeable.

prpr said:
Even back in the power cuts of the 70s it was the same. The controller and pump ran off electricity then as well, so the boiler wasn't gonna work.
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Pretty sure mine used to work back in the day. Not sure about the controller, the timeclock I think was clockwork but not sure exactly how it controlled the boiler. The lack of a pump wasn't a big issue for a limited time, convection caused by heating the "water" gave it enough circulation. The current ones are very complicated and I'm not convinced they're any cheaper to run. Mine's a condensing boiler and several times I've been away and come back to find the drain outlet to the grid outside has frozen up causing the boiler to have stopped working. Fortunately no burst pipes resulted. Anyway all off topic so I'll stop there.
 
Black Hole said:
Ask the people without power for weeks after storm whats-his-face whether "other responses" happened!
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So they all starved or froze to death? I'm sure it was hellish for many but emergency food and accommodation was provided. Having a phone at such times is nice but not essential.

Clearly people who live out in the sticks are more at risk of losing services, but they are probably well aware and have backup plans - which should include loss of communications.

Black Hole said:
If BT/OpenReach finds it too expensive maintaining an analogue system, they shouldn't have taken it on
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You sound a bit Luddite. I suspect the internet hadn't even been born then. Things change and (generally) improve, and sometimes making forward progress involves a step or two back as well.
 
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