Driving and Roads

Black Hole said:
The number of times cars have flashed at me because they think I should be using lights even though the sun has not set suggests people don't know the lighting up laws:

Sunset to sunrise: sidelights; sunset+30mins to sunrise-30mins: headlamps unless in a street-lighted 30mph zone.
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It's a case of being seen, not so that you can see. I get peed off when peeps are driving around in poor visibility without lights on. And as for those who drive on sidelights, I dispare. Thy have bothered to fiddle with the lights switch, so WTF don't they just go one more click so that others can see them? I'm one of those people to whom you refer and the lighting up laws are for mandatory lights. They do not ban headlights outside those times or on street lighted 30mph roads. Self preservation should indicate that dipped headlights should be used. The old adage ,'saving the battery' is a load of bull as well with modern cars as the alternator can easily manage to keep up with the lights and all the other stuff with a miniscule hit on fuel consumption.
So when someone who knows better than you and flashes you, it's probably because they can't see you very well, so switch your lights on so that they can.
 
In conditions of perfect visibility, when the only reason I might not be noticed is because everyone else is behaving like sheep? I don't think so. I despise DRLs as the work of the devil.

Motorcyclists have a valid reason to use headlights in daylight, and as long as all other traffic is not using lights the motorbikes are easily spotted. In a sea of other lights though...

Stick to the rules, or set a race to the bottom.
 
The only 'rules' about lighting up time is that you must use lights after the stated time, not that you can't use them at other times. I observe the 'rules' and also use my dipped headlights so that I can be seen at other times of less than perfect visibility.

But I'll tell you what does pee me off. It's the illegal use of fog-lights at night (when there is no fog or falling snow) and as they are often incorrectly aimed they dazzle oncoming drivers. Usually seen on cars driven by di** head younger male drivers.

And as for high intensity rear lights at night, well, that's just plain stupid and possibly illegal as well, as 'proper' rear lights are normally 5W (or equivalent) but the high intensity ones are 21W or brighter and just plain dazzle the following driver.
 
Trev said:
But I'll tell you what does pee me off. It's the illegal use of fog-lights at night (when there is no fog or falling snow) and as they are often incorrectly aimed they dazzle oncoming drivers.
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Yes. Or when it's raining, which makes the glare from the car in front dreadful. People who do that usually get flashed at repeatedly and then a full beam in their mirrors - usually they are so f***ing stupid that it makes not a blind bit of difference.
I also despise latching fog light switches - I would enforce deactivation when the ignition is switched off so they can't just be left latched on and forgotten about.
More often than not, fog lights are completely unnecessary anyway.
Then there's the case of the idiots who stick their front fogs on because one or both of their headlights isn't working.
 
prpr said:
Yes. Or when it's raining, which makes the glare from the car in front dreadful
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Presumably you are on about rear fogs? That's when they are supposed to be used. Daylight, (only) in fog or heavy rain/snow/spray
prpr said:
I also despise latching fog light switches....deactivation when the ignition is switched off
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I think that modern cars work that way don't they. All the Hondas that I have had do that, including the rear fogs. Jeez, it's easy enough to do. Self latching relay fed from the ignition.


.
 
A collar on the light stalk, controlling both rear and front fog lights. Using the rear ones when it is not foggy is illegal, so they deactivate at power off. Mine are a toggle on the collar, which returns itself to the front on position automatically. So, the positions are

  • Off
  • Rear on
  • Rotating the collar further puts fronts on, but the collar is spring loaded and returns to the previous rotation after selection. At power off, this setting is deselected.
It is therefore possible to illegally use front fog lights on a single run but impossible to leave them selected after parking.
 
My Focus mechanically deactivates fog lamps when the lights switch is turned to off... but if it is left in "automatic" mode, I suspect they stay on (I don't use auto lights, and auto lights might explain why so many cars light up early).

Auto lights and DRLs make drivers lazy. I suspect few realise that DRLs do not show any lighting at the rear, and imagine they are effectively the same as sidelights. Boy racers adding DRLs to their cars fail to realise the DRLs are supposed to turn off when headlights are switched on.

Trev said:
Presumably you are on about rear fogs? That's when they are supposed to be used. Daylight, (only) in fog or heavy rain/snow/spray
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This might surprise you, but no. Fog lamps are to be used in conditions of reduced visibility due to mist/fog only. However, it seems reasonable to include rain and spray as "reduced visibility" - this is one case where I knowingly and deliberately choose to disregard the law.
 
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30 years ago I felt that fogs, rear fogs and drls had value. Admittedly I don't drive nearly as much these days, but my fogs (both ends) and horn generally get used about once a year ... for the MoT.
 
MikeSh said:
Holding anything can be construed as not being in control.
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A piece on $ky News this morning. A (female) reporter being driven around by some bloke in a sports car. He was holding onto his knob the whole journey - the gear knob, that is. Something you see the police doing all the time.
 
Black Hole said:
I suspect few realise that DRLs do not show any lighting at the rear, and imagine they are effectively the same as sidelights.
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Mine do but only because I re-programmed them to do that because I noticed that they were only at the front!
 
Black Hole said:
this is one case where I knowingly and deliberately choose to disregard the law.
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But I hope that's not at night when they are a severe dazzle hazard for following drivers, especially in rain/spray.
Black Hole said:
Boy racers adding DRLs to their cars fail to realise the DRLs are supposed to turn off when headlights are switched on.
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Wrong. They are supposed to reduce in intensity. That could include switching off.
MikeSh said:
my fogs (both ends) and horn generally get used about once a year ... for the MoT.
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Same as me. Except the rear fog that I switch on during the day when it's raining causing a lot of spray behind the car. But they switch off automatically.
Mike0001 said:
The argument that front fog lights dazzle oncoming vehicles is nonsense, they point downwards at the road and give a far better view of the nearby road.
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I know what they are supposed to do, and mine do just that, but my bitch is the fact that they should only be used in fog or whatever and not as a matter of course as some people do. The fact that they are often miss-aligned for whatever reason and used usually totally unnecessary is what causes the dazzle.
 
There is no requirement for fog lights to be "dipped". The objective is that they illuminate the forward path from a lower angle, so that there is less back-scatter in the direction of the driver (the lower position is more off-axis than the normal headlamps). It helps if the normal headlamps are reduced to sidelights when using fog lamps. It also helps if the fog lamps have a yellow tint because blue light scatters more than red/yellow. Therefore, yes, they can and do dazzle if used inappropriately.

Update: my Focus fog lamps (front and rear) cannot be turned on while the lighting is set to "automatic", therefore they cannot be left on unless the engine is turned off while leaving the lights on (and the warning beeper will complain if you get out of the car in that situation, but only complain).
 
Mike0001 said:
The argument that front fog lights dazzle oncoming vehicles is nonsense, they point downwards at the road and give a far better view of the nearby road.
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Oh. Are you one of those scary people who drive looking 10 feet ahead. Because that's about the only way that fog lights make any sense. In fog, rather than the slight obscuration that most people think is fog, then visibility and speed make short range vision the only option. The rest of the time at normal speeds, if you haven't seen it before your fog lamps light it ... you're gonna hit it! (Which would get me started on people who never use main beam ... but I won't :) )

af123 said:
Mine do but only because I re-programmed them to do that because I noticed that they were only at the front!
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Why? They are daytime running lamps. Rear side/parking lamps are basically invisible in daytime.

Trev said:
Wrong. They are supposed to reduce in intensity. That could include switching off.
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They are only dimmed when used in place of sidelights. Else off.

Regarding use of rear fogs, I only use them if, in poor visibility, there is nothing behind me. As soon as a vehicle comes up behind and I judge that he has seen me and is close enough to see my sidelights then I turn the rear fogs off. This is mainly for self-preservation: rear fogs mask the brake lights, and when I brake I don't want the person behind going 'er' before reacting. It's also rude to shine bright lights in other drivers eyes unnecessarily, front or back.
 
Trev said:
or heavy rain/snow/spray
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NOOOOO!
You should never use fog lights in rain/snow/spray - it just disperses the light everywhere and you can't see anything.
People who do this are completely stupid and should be taken off the road.
Fog lights are ONLY for use in fog - that's why they're called Fog Lights - gettit?
 
MikeSh said:
It's also rude to shine bright lights in other drivers eyes unnecessarily, front or back.
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That is one of my pet hates when people flash to thank you for letting them through past parked cars etc, especially at night.
 
af123 said:
They aren't on my car (obviously not much use in bright sunlight but ok in grey weather).
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I've never seen a legal sidelight that was more visible than the car itself in any conditions short of those you'd have to be a bit mad to not have headlights on anyway, never mind the law requiring it.
If the lights are significantly brighter than the normal 5W or equivalent, or if your car is a fully matt blacked job, then there might be some value, but I would never rely on them for visibility. If I'm anywhere that someone needs to know I'm in the way I make sure my brake (or as described in #234) rear fogs are on.

DRLs are specifically intended to alert people ahead - pedestrians, drivers waiting to pull out - of the approach of an active vehicle. There is no corresponding case at the back which is why most cars don't use any other lights in daytime.
 
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