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Driving and Roads

OwenMc

Forum Supporter
I understand this is true (or used to be) in France. It sounds like a recipe for disaster to me, more concerned with giving the individual a break than the overall safety of the system.
This also used to be the case in the Netherlands - at least in the 80s/90s when I lived there. It also applied on roundabouts, which used to give me trouble as I'd learned the UK rule for roundabouts,
and just couldn't get used to the switch

Every time I raised this I got the 'so you use the same rule as we do, then - priority from the right on a roundabout'...... bloody roommate :)
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
If every road approaching a roundabout has priority over traffic already on the roundabout, why isn't there instant gridlock?
 

prpr

Well-Known Member
because the mini-roundabout is at a tee junction I think the straight-through route "thinks" it's just a normal tee junction.
It obviously was before somebody decided to 'improve' it. I wonder why they did it? The only beneficiary is traffic turning out of what was the side-road, and the main road hardly seems as though it'd be busy enough to make this a problem most of the time.
then the give way triangle sign and blue-circle-with-arrows roundabout sign at the give-way line,
Those signs seem too close to the junction to me to be of use. They need to be further away so you have time to process what they're trying to tell you.
And they seem to be perilously close to being obscured by vegetation, depending on when those images were taken - perhaps they already are.

At least you didn't have to get the T-cut out.
evidenced by the number who join motorways in a dedicated lane (as shown by huge signboards on the approach) yet immediately move over to the right into traffic despite there being no traffic in their own lane to overtake
Yes, this bugs me too. They are so programmed to move right that they don't engage their brain cell. M40/M42 westbound is another one.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
What annoys me is that since they did away with the motorway regulations sign, there's little (if anything) to tell you you're joining a motorway... and nothing which says you are no longer in a 30mph limit (or whatever).
 

Trev

The Dumb One
What planet are you talking about BH? Motorway signs have a blue background and there is nearly always a NSL or other limit specified on the rear of the 30 signs.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Try joining the M4 eastbound from the Coryton roundabout (J32) - to name but one I'm certain of.
 

EEPhil

Number 28
Somebody trying it on driving along the A52 in Derbyshire - somehow has taken this picture (after the event I think)
3988
(full story at https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/driver-says-a52-sign-misleading-2609338 )

If I understand it correctly, there appears to be two slip roads, one to the left and the one the picture is taken on. The main carriageway is the other side of the barrier on the right. Therefore the driver claims when driving on the main carriageway he saw the national speed limit sign to the left and assumed it applied to the A52. You can see some lane change markings (in roadworks?) ahead. He then claims to have been caught in a speed trap at 49 mph. Wrongly placed end of roadworks sign or not?
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
The other bugger was making a turn in a quiet residential area (with no other traffic to follow) and finding myself on the wrong side of the road (out of habit).
Yes, when I've driven abroad that's the same thing I found could catch me out in the first few hours. I think it's partly because it's a 'high load' situation as you are busy looking round for other/conflicting traffic as well as doing gear shifts with the window winder (which shows how long it is since I last drove abroad - 15-16 years I think), so other stuff drops back into habit mode.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Wrongly placed end of roadworks sign or not?
No speed limit sign is legally effective unless there is one both sides of the carriageway.

I had somebody argue black and blue that the speed limit through the tolls at the Second Severn Crossing was 30mph, because that's what was painted in circles on the road surface - but as there were no corresponding lollipop signs, the road surface reminders were not effective and the prevailing speed limit was 50mph as previously advised.
 

RobH1

Well-Known Member
However, I am increasingly aware that drivers simply don't read road signs - evidenced by the number who join motorways in a dedicated lane (as shown by huge signboards on the approach) yet immediately move over to the right into traffic despite there being no traffic in their own lane to overtake.
Too true, The M61 northbound access to the M6 is the fastest and scariest approach I've ever seen. Summer and and sunny weekends, with cars heading north to Blackpool or The Lakes is a nightmare.


Re roundabouts, I spend many months in Portugal each year and the rules for approaching and leaving changed two years ago. These changes were made as it was custom if, say, a driver wished to take the third exit left, they would stay in the right hand lane all the way round ( generally without signalling), fine if there was one lane, but chaos if there were two.
Now the system for taking the third or subsequent exit is the same as ours, namely signal, move to the left etc. But the rule also applies to those going straight ahead because their rules state you can only use the inside (right) lane to take the first available exit.
Since the locals and especially elder drivers don't abide by the rules this makes approaching roundabouts ( and they are replacing junctions at an alarming rate on the main N125 in the Algarve), something of a lottery. The Portuguese haven't yet discovered that their vehicles have indicators!
 

EEPhil

Number 28
No speed limit sign is legally effective unless there is one both sides of the carriageway.
I've never heard that before. Where did you find that one? That would make the majority of signs near me not legal. 😕 (Damned smiley should be "confused")
Black Hole said:
the road surface reminders were not effective and the prevailing speed limit was 50mph
Isn't there something about the frequency of lampposts and the 30mph limit unless there are repeater signs on the posts. I don't know the area - but could that apply?
 
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OwenMc

Forum Supporter
If every road approaching a roundabout has priority over traffic already on the roundabout, why isn't there instant gridlock?
Either common sense or playing chicken...
They were just being introduced in the Netherlands when I was there, with only 1 roundabout of any sort in the city I lived in.
I never saw gridlock on it, but there was only 1 busy road feeding on to it - the rest were minor ones - so it probably self-regulated
with the difference in traffic flow involved.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I've never heard that before. Where did you find that one?
You will find it all here:


The Portuguese haven't yet discovered that their vehicles have indicators!
Frankly, I prefer that. I had to abort an entry to a roundabout very recently when a car signalling left didn't. If you can't trust indicators, they might as well not be there.

Something I find very confusing is that (I believe) instructors are telling pupils to signal right if they are not exiting at the first opportunity.
 

EEPhil

Number 28
Something I find very confusing is that (I believe) instructors are telling pupils to signal right if they are not exiting at the first opportunity.
:eek: Surely that can't be right.
Bloody instructors are getting pupils to pull over on the wrong side of the road and then reverse just opposite my house. It isn't just one instructor. New item in the test then. How to drive on the wrong side of the road and cause confusion to all the passing traffic including buses. Argh!
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
It is ridiculous. A roundabout can be interpreted as a continuous one-way street with exits only on the left. Why would you ever need to indicate right? It is a courtesy to other road users that you signal right when approaching the roundabout intending to make a turn beyond 12o/c (as it were), but other than that...
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
The relevant section for speed limit signs is Schedule 10. I haven't found anything which dictates there must be a speed limit sign on both sides of the carriageway, but I also can't believe that's not a "thing" - it is overwhelmingly the case, and if they could save money by not, wouldn't they? And if a pair wasn't necessary, how would you know it doesn't apply to you when the sign is for an adjacent carriageway?
 
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