Driving and Roads

Somebody trying it on driving along the A52 in Derbyshire - somehow has taken this picture (after the event I think)
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(full story at https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/driver-says-a52-sign-misleading-2609338 )

If I understand it correctly, there appears to be two slip roads, one to the left and the one the picture is taken on. The main carriageway is the other side of the barrier on the right. Therefore the driver claims when driving on the main carriageway he saw the national speed limit sign to the left and assumed it applied to the A52. You can see some lane change markings (in roadworks?) ahead. He then claims to have been caught in a speed trap at 49 mph. Wrongly placed end of roadworks sign or not?
 
Black Hole said:
The other bugger was making a turn in a quiet residential area (with no other traffic to follow) and finding myself on the wrong side of the road (out of habit).
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Yes, when I've driven abroad that's the same thing I found could catch me out in the first few hours. I think it's partly because it's a 'high load' situation as you are busy looking round for other/conflicting traffic as well as doing gear shifts with the window winder (which shows how long it is since I last drove abroad - 15-16 years I think), so other stuff drops back into habit mode.
 
EEPhil said:
Wrongly placed end of roadworks sign or not?
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No speed limit sign is legally effective unless there is one both sides of the carriageway.

I had somebody argue black and blue that the speed limit through the tolls at the Second Severn Crossing was 30mph, because that's what was painted in circles on the road surface - but as there were no corresponding lollipop signs, the road surface reminders were not effective and the prevailing speed limit was 50mph as previously advised.
 
Black Hole said:
However, I am increasingly aware that drivers simply don't read road signs - evidenced by the number who join motorways in a dedicated lane (as shown by huge signboards on the approach) yet immediately move over to the right into traffic despite there being no traffic in their own lane to overtake.
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Too true, The M61 northbound access to the M6 is the fastest and scariest approach I've ever seen. Summer and and sunny weekends, with cars heading north to Blackpool or The Lakes is a nightmare.


Re roundabouts, I spend many months in Portugal each year and the rules for approaching and leaving changed two years ago. These changes were made as it was custom if, say, a driver wished to take the third exit left, they would stay in the right hand lane all the way round ( generally without signalling), fine if there was one lane, but chaos if there were two.
Now the system for taking the third or subsequent exit is the same as ours, namely signal, move to the left etc. But the rule also applies to those going straight ahead because their rules state you can only use the inside (right) lane to take the first available exit.
Since the locals and especially elder drivers don't abide by the rules this makes approaching roundabouts ( and they are replacing junctions at an alarming rate on the main N125 in the Algarve), something of a lottery. The Portuguese haven't yet discovered that their vehicles have indicators!
 
Black Hole said:
No speed limit sign is legally effective unless there is one both sides of the carriageway.
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I've never heard that before. Where did you find that one? That would make the majority of signs near me not legal. 😕 (Damned smiley should be "confused")
Black Hole said:
the road surface reminders were not effective and the prevailing speed limit was 50mph
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Isn't there something about the frequency of lampposts and the 30mph limit unless there are repeater signs on the posts. I don't know the area - but could that apply?
 
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Black Hole said:
If every road approaching a roundabout has priority over traffic already on the roundabout, why isn't there instant gridlock?
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peterworks said:
Either common sense or playing chicken...
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They were just being introduced in the Netherlands when I was there, with only 1 roundabout of any sort in the city I lived in.
I never saw gridlock on it, but there was only 1 busy road feeding on to it - the rest were minor ones - so it probably self-regulated
with the difference in traffic flow involved.
 
EEPhil said:
I've never heard that before. Where did you find that one?
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You will find it all here:


RobH1 said:
The Portuguese haven't yet discovered that their vehicles have indicators!
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Frankly, I prefer that. I had to abort an entry to a roundabout very recently when a car signalling left didn't. If you can't trust indicators, they might as well not be there.

Something I find very confusing is that (I believe) instructors are telling pupils to signal right if they are not exiting at the first opportunity.
 
Black Hole said:
Something I find very confusing is that (I believe) instructors are telling pupils to signal right if they are not exiting at the first opportunity.
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:eek: Surely that can't be right.
Bloody instructors are getting pupils to pull over on the wrong side of the road and then reverse just opposite my house. It isn't just one instructor. New item in the test then. How to drive on the wrong side of the road and cause confusion to all the passing traffic including buses. Argh!
 
It is ridiculous. A roundabout can be interpreted as a continuous one-way street with exits only on the left. Why would you ever need to indicate right? It is a courtesy to other road users that you signal right when approaching the roundabout intending to make a turn beyond 12o/c (as it were), but other than that...
 
Black Hole said:
You will find it all here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/pdfs/uksi_20160362_en.pdf
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The relevant section for speed limit signs is Schedule 10. I haven't found anything which dictates there must be a speed limit sign on both sides of the carriageway, but I also can't believe that's not a "thing" - it is overwhelmingly the case, and if they could save money by not, wouldn't they? And if a pair wasn't necessary, how would you know it doesn't apply to you when the sign is for an adjacent carriageway?
 
The problem with indicators and modern person is that the latter generally use the former to confirm they are doing what they are already doing.
There is no attempt to use them to indicate what they are planning to do.

I play a game when following people sometimes by predicting what they are going to do, based on their 'body' language, before they indicate it (if they indicate at all). In most cases the indication is superfluous.
 
A 'majority' telltale is the movement right before turning left, and vice-versa - sometimes worrying when performed by an adjacent car in constricted traffic lanes (eg traffic lights)
 
dandnsmith said:
the movement right before turning left, and vice-versa
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Dreadful. A "boy racer" tactic to carry more speed into the corner instead of performing the manoeuvre with correct (respectful) braking and steering inputs.

I can't count how many times I have had to take avoiding action when another vehicle has turned into my side road, cutting the corner without considering who might be coming out of it (again to carry more speed, or just laziness). The white markings on the road are there for a purpose!

The roundabout near me is wide enough for at least two cars, but doesn't have lane markings. It is not uncommon I'm heading for the third exit on the inside track, while another car obstensibly on the outside track and going straight on drifts right (pinching my space, unaware there's another vehicle) before exiting. Only the other day, I had a BMW on the outside track go all the way around to the third exit without any signals!
 
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There is a new roundabout being built here and at the moment there is a Turn Left Only coming out of the side road onto the main road. I was following a car up the side road yesterday and could tell they were thinking about turning right into the oncoming traffic. My hand was on the horn and pressed as soon as their right turn indicator started flashing which stopped them in their tracks and made them think again.

To cap it all, after turning left, instead of doing the regulation U-turn at the next roundabout to go in the direction they wanted they did a three point turn in the middle of two way traffic! :eek:
 
There is a general degeneration of road manners which, while almost unbelievable to us old-school drivers, typifies the self-centred look-after-no1 attitude of the younger generation. They will go the wrong way down a one way street if it saves them time and they think they'll get away with it (and with the current state of policing, they will). I've been face to face with one. They don't care.

Recently I was on a side road in Bristol, lined both sides with parked cars and only room for one vehicle to traverse, up a hill. I was nearly at the top when a great white Merc entered from the other direction, big black bloke with afro hair, just sat there beckoning me to reverse back. There was a space just behind him! I would have needed to reverse at least 200m, and it was my right of way up the hill! I gestured at him and pointed out the pull-in, which he grudgingly reversed into, but I didn't half get an ear-full when I went by.

Then there was the white van man stopped at the exit onto a higher priority road - I was sitting behind him for a while thinking he must have been able to get out by now... I went to see what was happening and found him basically parked up checking his phone.
 
So that's AvP rather than "Driving and Roads"?

EEPhil said:
Lazy sub-editor.
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I don't agree. That it was "50mph in lane three" is not so obvious a contravention than "50mph in the fast lane" (as it is commonly known anyway), which is a much better headline and indicates the sub-editor thought about it.
 
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